Obama and Constitution

[nirvanapirate]

If there is anyone who broke the constitution as president, it would be this last Bush. And do you know who taught Constitutional Law for 12 years at Chicago School of Law... Barack Obama. So what I see is him taking some legal action, either in the states, or in the Hague, to get some of these guys.

[feeler]

Originally Posted by nirvanapirate

If there is anyone who broke the constitution as president, it would be this last Bush. And do you know who taught Constitutional Law for 12 years at Chicago School of Law... Barack Obama. So what I see is him taking some legal action, either in the states, or in the Hague, to get some of these guys.

Obama and Ron Paul should have a talk - on the Patriot Act.



-feeler

[Fredkc]

Someone used "Obama" and "Constitution" in the same sentence! Moreover, I suspect they werent kidding!

Please get a clue.
One thing that will NOT change, when/if Obama is sworn in, is the toilet paper in the White House. Copies of the Constitution.

Wanna look at the record? I give you three strikes:
1. (And no one knows this better than your "Constitutional Scholar") The President has ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to take away, or restore Habeas Corpus. As a member of the Senate he could introduce a bill to do so any day, in fact every day! He has never done so, too busy getting himself elected.

2. He flushed away a campaign promise to the people to vote FOR what every "Constitutional Scholar" knows damned well Congress is unconditionally and specifically forbidden from even doing: Passing an ex post facto law. (See Article 1, Section 9). Not only did he break his promise to fillibuster this happening, he voted to prevent anyone else from doing so, as well.

3. In the very same bill, he not only voted to flush your 4th amendment rights down the toilet, he basically voted for a law making everything Bush did illegally, legal for the NEXT President. Gosh, wonder who that is?

And... he did all of that THIS YEAR while pretending to be everyone's hero/savior on these very issues. It boggles the mind.
____________________________________

Re. This notion of "get(ting) some of these guys." Never happen.
1. As a precedent, no sitting president will ever jail another. Don't care what they did.
2. Obama cannot go after Bush & Co. without also jailing 1/2 the leadership in the House & Senate. Think that will happen? Ha!
3. "In the interest of uniting our country.... blah blah blah ... I hereby pardon...."

[nirvanapirate]

And you don't think Bush took away your rights? Let's see what happens.

[Fredkc]

Originally Posted by nirvanapirate

And you don't think Bush took away your rights? Let's see what happens.

G. W. Bush has by both design, and blunder, done more to harm the freedom of the citizens of this country, than any president in the modern era. For my part, I have consistently spoken against this administration's tactics, and first wrote my Congressman, calling for Bush's impeachment, in May of 2003.

This was the only letter I had ever written him which he not only didn't answer personally, he never answered at all (as an aside, I ceased to correspond with the flake when I looked at his web site, roughly the date he should have received my letter. It seems he was on a White House sponsored junket to Gitmo, and was reporting about "the wonderful chicken dinners" we were serving there. yeah, a write-off. ). So I published it everywhere I could.

I have posted on every political forum I belong(ed) to concerning impeachment, and the incredible acts Bush/Cheney have committed to earn it. So often, so consistently, I actually got used to being called a traitor. In fact I consider it one of my crowning achievements to be called a traitor for merely speaking out for our government to abide by the agreement from which it draws consent to govern, the Constitution.

My part-time obsession (one must still eat) since approximately 1996 has been the study of the Constitution, what it intended for us, vs what we've become, and such. If you have a look at my site, you'll find I keep such things as, Dec. Of Independence, U.S, Constitution, The Federalist Papers, Anti-Fed Papers, The actual Minutes of the Constitutional Convention, A Collection of Thomas Jefferson's Writings, and a lot more, available for reference by all, and for discussion.

It's of more than idle interest to me. It is where my 6 grandchildren will have to learn to survive, and thrive.

Something I've learned:
I am kinda new at this, as I have only been voting since 1972 ; But i'll pass it on anyway:

Pay absolutely no attention to anything ANY politician says, ever! Only pay attention to what they DO.

What they say has no other purpose than to manipulate what you want. What they do is the true measure of who they are, and what they want.

This brings me to the two candidates the people settled for. Both of them were nothing more than the same mistake with different names. America had a chance at an honest, genuine conversation about our future. The two parties panicked and quickly hustled off R. Paul, & D. Kucinich. The people settled.

Re. Obama's "opposition". In my opinion, the only person who took McCain's candidacy seriously for more than 5 minutes, was McCain himself. In fact, I consider his nomination tantamount to proof the republicans wanted to lose this one. Our two party system is no longer even a credible myth.

While it once served as a pendulum, each side correcting the excesses of the other, its two sides have become so obsessed with wielding the power they've built together, I see it now as a wrecking ball, spreading destruction either way it swings. The catalyst they both use to perpetuate the game is fear.

As I had not looked it up when I posted yesterday, I left it alone, but now that I have, let me address this:

Obama and Ron Paul should have a talk - on the Patriot Act.

I seriously doubt the conversation will ever come up. You see, while R. Paul voted against the Patriot Act both times, when it came time to renew it Senator Obama voted for it. (Adding it to my previous post would make it Strike 4 re. Obama's respect for the Constitution)

Again, pay no attention to what they say, watch what they do.

The Disconnect:
...and it's a big one, was basically brought about by an illogical fear, coupled with the people's own refusal to excercise and insist upon their freedom.

One of the most consistent themes of the recent campaign played upon the one thing everyone knew they didn't want: More Bush.

Well theres only three ways that can happen.
1. Bush is re-elected. He can't run again, honest! So many, it seemed, made their choice as if Bush was the alternative. It clouded much of the scrutiny an opposition party candidate would normally get. As I pointed out above, Obama has signed on for many of Bush's policies, both condoning them in the past, and securing them for the next admin, and rarely factually responded to.

2. Bush "pulls a fast one", seizes power and no one does a damned thing about it. Well, if that's going to happen, who cares who we vote for.

3. We elect someone who will speak against, but in the end carry out much the same policies.

It's this third one that has caused me such confusion. When you quit listening to what they said, and watched what they did, and have done, the differences seem almost incidental. Try to point this out and I was continually referred to, "Well, he isn't Bush!"

Excellent! I've wanted to get rid of Bush for over 5 years now. The same people that told me "It's too much trouble." when it was relevant, now seem obsessed with it, now that it's a done deal, either way.

Frankly, I had hoped for better. By the way, I don't think much of his choice for a Chief Of Staff. seems right out of the Wolfowitz camp, re. mid-east policy.

Then there are the proposed "immediate changes" possible thru Executive Order. I've read two stories on this in the last few days. One at MSNBC, and one at Wash. Post. So far there are no mention of reversing any decisions regarding personal rights, that I can see.

Now, in case you think this is all about Obama, with me, here are copies of posts I've written over the last few years, re. the Bush admin's abuse of the Constitution. Like Feb. 2006, Aug. and Sep. of 2007