The thread that goes against everything we want... *4 Reports* Simon

[arcora]

Originally Posted by gazbom

No, but someone might be holding one to your head while his friend is raping your daughter!
The guy has a good point, look what happened in the New Orleans sports stadium during the Hurricane, women robbed and raped, people murdered!

The masses will be like wild dogs, you will need to protect your family, believe me.

A weapon of some sort is necessary for PROTECTION. I've said this before but it bears repeating. Love is not going to protect you from the angry confused and violent masses. The new agers here can create all the glowing, loving, radiant energy bubbles they want - but it won't protect them from the physical threats of starving 1/2 crazed humans turned animal.

If I intended to ride out the storm in an urban area I would arm myself to the teeth.

Closing the mentioned thread because it goes against someone's own moral values is irresponsible. If this forum is to be about surviving coming cataclysms, then survival of the physical body must be planned and discussed.

Avalon members haven't cornered the market on survival intentions. What will you do when your happy loving commune is raided by former commandos turned survivalist who are more Machiavellian in nature?

[Operator]

Hi,

I think this thread is great. It gives a clear angle on how to prepare:

1. Who lives by the sword dies by the sword ! We should stay away from weapons
2. But there will be many people who don't understand 1. That's why other people tell you to prepare a radiant zone.

There should be no such lunatics in your vicinity (and it goes beyond weapons alone) that interferes with your preparation

Now here's a very good video that will indidcate what I am talking about:

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com...s/drunvalo.htm

Watch till the end because that's where the clue is !

Cheers

[arcora]

Living in peace love and harmony is noble - don't get me wrong. But maybe it will help some here to think about it this way.

What happened to the Native Americans when the white men came? How did their trusting noble nature serve them when the whites wanted what they had? Were they naive?

What could the Native Americans done differently to survive and keep their lifestyle?

If you can answer that question you'll be on your way.

[Genevieve]

I have been reading this thread with much interest, much trepidation and some amusement.

The truth is most of us in this forum have absolutely NO first hand idea of what it is like when the confines of law & order breakdown - or what it is like to be taken over by another enforcement - or even how your loving neighbours will react when they themselves are starving.

Truth is neither to i - personally. That is where it is important to listen to your elders!!! lol

For my part my paternal grandparents lived thru the German occupation of Holland during WWII. They emigrated to Australia when my father was 10. I as the first grandchild had the (sometimes unwanted) luxury of being privvy to all that happened to them during that war!! lol Now i am eternaly grateful for their concern in sharing it all with me.

From all the stories I heard over the years ( and believe me some of them i know word for word!!! lol) a few distinct codes so to speak stand out.

never underestimate what some people will do when it is their life or their child's life at stake

conversely never underestimate how wonderful people can be in the face of extreme adversity

always remember your humanity and maintain a sense of humour

never give up hope

Points of example -

german soldiers who came to their house (after all they were just people too) and who made my dad his first pair of shoes out of a piece of leather
on returning from germany.

neighbours segregating my great grandfather AFTER the war because the poor man chose to join the communist party in a desperate attempt to avert the nazis during the war

stories of my grandfather cycling back from the german shipyards where he was "commissioned" to work as a boilermaker on a bicycle with rubber tyres cut up for wheels and smuggling some german parachute silk out for Oma to make stockings with and some real soap!!

living in one room of a former mansion where Queen Juliana used to holiday after the dykes were bombed and my father getting "arrested: at 4 years old for sitting on the head of the statue of said queen!!

To put this all in context

NONE of us know what we will do in times of adversity but it is worth mentioning here that NONE of my rellies had or chose or even contemplated using firearms!!!

But they survived with love and dignity and their humanity intact.

[Genevieve]

ohh this is a PS

should have added that obviously living in australia - the fact that not everybody has a handgun in the top drawer is a great deciding factor - as i presume it was back in war torn europe. That being said there is nothing to stop a person using an axe a shovel or a piece of wood as a form of domination either - just gives everyone else a fighting chance!!!

If need be i'll use my grass rake to protect my children!!! lol

[arcora]

Originally Posted by Genevieve

but it is worth mentioning here that NONE of my rellies had or chose or even contemplated using firearms!!!

If the troops are calling the shots, firearms will be useless and counter productive.

But I think people here are thinking in terms of a total and complete collapse of all systems.

[colesmommy1117]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpqKA9_ddFk

[ForsakenFalcon]

Originally Posted by Genevieve

ohh this is a PS

should have added that obviously living in australia - the fact that not everybody has a handgun in the top drawer is a great deciding factor - as i presume it was back in war torn europe. That being said there is nothing to stop a person using an axe a shovel or a piece of wood as a form of domination either - just gives everyone else a fighting chance!!!

If need be i'll use my grass rake to protect my children!!! lol

Depends where in Aus You are =/

The Mornington Penninsular in Melbourne's is going to be one scary hell hole =/ Eithen though not alot do have gun's ALOT of the wrong People do however I rather be shot and die instantly from a single bullet then have gang's of People ambush Me with Sharp blade's and Blunt Wepon's.

P.S Hoooray for Golf Clubs!

[Gale]

Originally Posted by arcora

The new agers here can create all the glowing, loving, radiant energy bubbles they want - but it won't protect them from the physical threats of starving 1/2 crazed ... ride out the storm in an urban area I would arm myself to the teeth ... closing the mentioned thread because it goes against someone's own moral values is irresponsible. If this forum is to be about surviving coming cataclysms, then survival of the physical body must be planned and discussed ... Avalon members haven't cornered the market on survival intentions. What will you do when your happy loving commune is raided by former commandos turned survivalist who are more Machiavellian in nature?

There are a lot of items close at hand that can be used as a weapon, look in your kitchen cupboard and there is no license need for a flare gun that would have many uses.

[arcora]

One last thing to think about if you believe enlightenment and love will save your physical form.

Ghandi was shot to death.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by arcora

Love is not going to protect you from the angry confused and violent masses.

I predict that one day you will experience a miracle. That miracle will show you how love (and all that other stuff you listed) can indeed protect you - and a whole lot more.

Until that day happens we must agree to differ.

A..

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by arcora

Ghandi was shot to death.

Everyone dies somehow. At least he died with his mission accomplished.

[Sherab]

Originally Posted by arcora

Living in peace love and harmony is noble - don't get me wrong. But maybe it will help some here to think about it this way.

What happened to the Native Americans when the white men came? How did their trusting noble nature serve them when the whites wanted what they had? Were they naive?

What could the Native Americans done differently to survive and keep their lifestyle?

If you can answer that question you'll be on your way.

An interesting point. But I would like to raise some questions, for which I don't have answers. Is the survival of race to be pursued regardless of the means of achieving that survival? Would the Native Americans have been justified in killing thousands of white people so that their Native culture could survive? Care to discuss?

[MartyMcFailure]

Not everyone is so far advanced spiritually that they will be able to be doing yoga in radiant zones bartering blocks of gold for rides on the great spacer with the nordics.

im far from a violent person, but for anyone who has read the john titor material or who expects martial law/civil war in the US, its not inappropriate to at LEAST be familiar with safety and matinence of firearms. of course practicing your accuracy wouldnt hurt either. T

that being said.. it depends on where and why you have guns. if u wanna loot and pillage people in chaos, then perhaps you are a jerk. no doubt these type of people exist. "jerks" if you want to protect yourself and your family, and are willing to fight for your freedom, you are whats called a "patriot".

[Sherab]

Originally Posted by arcora

One last thing to think about if you believe enlightenment and love will save your physical form.

Ghandi was shot to death.

And the Buddha died of dysentery...
And Ramana Maharishi died of cancer...

I think the real thing is to get over the fear of dying, then it really wouldn't matter if hordes of half-crazed humans came and killed you.

[arcora]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Everyone dies somehow. At least he died with his mission accomplished.

Was it? The way I read history is he was shot by a Hindu fanatic who didn't want Ghandi to accomplish his mission of healing the rift between Hindus and Muslims. Last I checked the Hindus and Muslims have nukes pointed at each other.

Originally Posted by Sherab

An interesting point. But I would like to raise some questions, for which I don't have answers. Is the survival of race to be pursued regardless of the means of achieving that survival? Would the Native Americans have been justified in killing thousands of white people so that their Native culture could survive? Care to discuss?

The Native Americans did turn to war (and they proved to be outstanding at it) but it could be argued that their population had already been reduced to a point that numbers would cause them to lose.

[Sherab]

Originally Posted by arcora

Was it? The way I read history is he was shot by a Hindu fanatic who didn't want Ghandi to accomplish his mission of healing the rift between Hindus and Muslims. Last I checked the Hindus and Muslims have nukes pointed at each other.



The Native Americans did turn to war (and they proved to be outstanding at it) but it could be argued that their population had already been reduced to a point that numbers would cause them to lose.

That is true. I guess I was trying to ground a hypothetical moral question in a real world example. And the question still stands. Is it right to kill or war in order to save yourself or your culture?

[TranceAm]

As usual in these discussions (And I have seen a lot of them.) the firearms are the blame of all evil. And as usual It is not the firearms, that do the damage, it is the humans that use them.

There is no problem with a gun or a riffle or a knife, as there is none with a club or a car or a hammer, it is the >>>intent<<< for what it is wielded/used/bought for.

I can pray to earth and heaven, But it is going to be hard to convince that mother bear when I am out strolling through the woods,, that I am not going to hurt her babies, or remove her coat from her..
And a straw isn't going to convince that wild pack of hungry dogs that lost their pet status and devolved back to wolves that I do not volunteer to be their next meal.

I can prepare in advance food and shelter, and maybe manage to survive longer if I have the luck of a first succeeding crop of veggies,
Or I can hand it over in fear for whatever, to a hungry pack in lynch mob form, that threaten to kill me (Or worse.) and anyone that stands in their mob way,, for what they think will help them survive for the next day, and then continue their travel like locusts through the country, until their is no one left that will have done the work for them and they turn onto each other..

I do not think that guns or violence grant me to have it my way only, over others rights, but I do think that I have the right to my way, in spite of the right of the mob because they carry more sticks in a lawless environment. And if a gun or riffle or any other weapon keeps that mob in check and acknowledge and respect my rights and the people I surround myself with, then that is all I want or ever bought the means to defend for..

Peace and Love to all and it is a sad subject,
But I for me won't close my eyes for it, by retrying the Ostrich or Dodo tactic.

[arcora]

Originally Posted by Sherab

I think the real thing is to get over the fear of dying, then it really wouldn't matter if hordes of half-crazed humans came and killed you.

Agreed. But there are things worse than death - as Gazbom pointed out. I have a responsibility to protect my family and I take that responsibility seriously.

But you bring up a good question. Is this forum about preparing to die or is it about surviving?

My opinion is that if it is about surviving - with the hope of making positive change for the next generation - then the preservation of the physical form is absolutely necessary.

[raoulduke666]

My whole intention with that thread is for PROTECTION...nothing more! Alot of our members have no idea what its going to be like if crap hits the fan. And it's everyone for themselves "outside of the Ground Crew" at the point.

Eventually if the ground crew does raise up supporting communities that are organized, you do realize eventually those communities will be challenged from the crazies out there that have no idea how to support themselves. People will do just about anything out there to survive if it's to feed their bellies to stay alive...especially if these communities have food storage. With no weapons to repel those people what are we going to do to protect ourselves or our families? Peace and love is one thing but its not going to stop someone for hurting someone you care about.

[Norval]

Is it right to kill?

Many that read the bible where it says; "Thou shall not kill" need to keep reading.
Turn the page and count how many times it says to take a life and for what cause.

When the killing starts there will be plenty of guns laying around to have my choice.

An analogy is this; When it is the first snow of the season, don't drive for a couple of
hours. Just relax and wait for all the idiots to fill the ditches.

[arcora]

Originally Posted by Sherab

That is true. I guess I was trying to ground a hypothetical moral question in a real world example. And the question still stands. Is it right to kill or war in order to save yourself or your culture?

Hypothetically - If the Native Americans had won and wiped out the white man, would the world be better off today?

Now we're getting back into karma. Karma isn't about absolutes of right and wrong. It is about positive effect and negative effect.

It is the responsibility of the good to fight evil.

[Hypnotize]

all the love and good thoughts you have aren't going to stop a bullet from killing you. and if any blackwater guy tries to put a chip in my arm or take me to a fema camp you better believe im gunna shoot his ass.

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by arcora

Hypothetically - If the Native Americans had won and wiped out the white man, would the world be better off today?

I don't think the Natives realized HOW MANY white people there were, and how many could be send from Europe
Also that the reproduction rate in Europe was that high and only for that reason Europe would win..

And for the Royalty in that time, what better way to get rid of them potential revolutionaries, then to have a meat grinder at the other side of the ocean, instead of waiting until the critical mass was reached for a revolution..

The Natives never had a praying chance in hell.

[Sherab]

Originally Posted by arcora

Agreed. But there are things worse than death - as Gazbom pointed out. I have a responsibility to protect my family and I take that responsibility seriously.

But you bring up a good question. Is this forum about preparing to die or is it about surviving?

My opinion is that if it is about surviving - with the hope of making positive change for the next generation - then the preservation of the physical form is absolutely necessary.

I think preparing to die and overcoming the fear of death are two different things.

If one is afraid of dying, then one will tend to act in irrational ways to a threat, i.e. shooting someone in a moment of reactivity instead of clear thinking.

In order to overcome the fear of death, one has to know who one really is. When one knows that, they can act spontaneously for the benefit of those around them in a clear, wise manner. If that action calls for shooting someone, okay, if not, okay. But their selfish, reactive impulses are not wrapped up in the action so they can see clearly what needs to be done.

To me, those types of people will really make a difference for the next generation.