Scientologists 'heal' Haiti quake victims using touch!!

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Well do the research and you'll see that Scientology was a complete scam from the very start and remains so today.

You can access numerous ex-Scientist testimonies to that fact that Scientology does not work and is a dangerous scam.

To promote Scientology as valid in any regard whatsoever other than a cautionary tale ignores the preponderance of evidence freely available to anyone who cares to look for it.

Well, trainedobserver, to speak in absolutes, like "complete scam", "very start", "does not work", "valid in any regard whatsoever", is adventurous on the best of days. The truth can usually be found somewhere in the middle.

I'm not going to debate with you, but as a long time former Scientologist myself, I can say that some of the techniques have some workability. I don't in anyway defend Hubbard or the church. I just can't sit by and watch ignorant observations put forth with such absolute conviction, without SOME comment. It's now a scam, but was not always so, even if Hubbard set out to con people from the beginning.

And none of this takes away from the fact that many Scientologists are good, caring people who want to and think they are, helping others.

And yes, Anonymous has taken some of their stuffing out. Which they had coming.

[Céline]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

And none of this takes away from the fact that many Scientologists are good, caring people who want to and think they are, helping others.

i too, will fight against what this so called church stands for today but....

Many nazis were good, caring people ...too

PS: pls do not thinkt his statement means i believe scientologists are nazis..that is not my intent.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

... It's now a scam, but was not always so, even if Hubbard set out to con people from the beginning.

And none of this takes away from the fact that many Scientologists are good, caring people who want to and think they are, helping others.

I am not talking about the merits of individual Scientologists. Your refusal to acknowledge the complete failure of Scientology ignores its roots, its history, and the present day revelations of Scientologists.

I won't argue the point. Anyone who cares to make an honest appraisal of Scientology can do so now without spending a fortune in the process. I encourage people do their own research and form their own opinions.

I have known people who lives were ruined by Scientology. A friend of mine was never able to see his grandchild due to Scientologies policies. There is no good thing in Scientology that I have found.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

I'm familiar with the church of Scientology's volunteer minister program. The assists themselves are beneficial. sometimes very much so. The church however uses the sending out of these "volunteer ministers" to help out in disaster areas as a marketing ploy. that's why the bright yellow jackets and T shirts. They are out looking for customers, and some good publicity.

But the individual volunteers and the assists they provide are a good service and help relieve the trauma, up to a point.

That is a pretty balanced perspective from having been in and now out. Little were we able to look and confront that the top leadership was as insane as I now know it to be. And the touch assist is awesome: My boyfriend had a dislocated shoulder pop back into place after a touch assist. Twice I helped someone run out a dental surgery unconsciousness using a touch assist. My hubby loves his Nerve Assists.

It is just that the CofS is a bit too exclusive and acts as if Touch Assists and Nerve Assists are top dog on the long long menu of Meridian-based healing technologies. Oh, boy, I had a much broader buffet spread out for me when I discovered EFT and PEAT, both meridian-based healing techs.

Yes, the happy little pawns, or children, or however you wish to look at it. But if I were a beaten down Haitian person and someone from their heart helped me lift my consciousness and attitude about my situation I would not be too choosy -- whatever the Lord sends to me, for I sure would have been praying hard before any yellow-clad being came up to me.

At the exact moment any healing technology is being transmitted there is a sacred sharing between the two parties, at least when I transmitted to others. At that moment it was bliss for me because I realized at that moment I could "Do No Harm" (Hippocratic oath personified).

If I had the inclination to find evil within the CofS or Scientology technology itself I personally would look elsewhere than their empirically proven meridian healing techniques. There are some shining gems, both people and technologies, and I took the best of both with me when I said goodbye

I was ready to graduate out of that playpen and ready to expand to the next level. It felt like graduatinig from High School, which was also a bit overdone from an education experience.

The thing I like about Ron's Org is they have a more aggressive spiritual approach to helping to raise consciousness on this planet, and I borrowed some of their processes for our "Mankind Project", and they work excellently. I like that these people represent a group that is doing something about the current scene from a level that I can relate too, not the "Guns and Butter" level.

The Ron's Org group represent to me some beings who operate from a win/win, and like me, they are quite aggressive about playing that way, and like myself, they are putting it in the 4th dimension and tracking the perpetrators to even beyond this universe. That was how I personally discovered that this universe was schemed up and is being run by a big "machine" in one of the outerlying universes.

Like myself, the best of them play their win/win game from being able to be in the viewpoint of the All-that-is when they do their work. Cannot do that successfully without ongoing self-clearing.

So also a touch assist or any healing assist is done from a sacred heart, but what follows up on the heels of the healing -- it could go in either direction.

Ummm, glad I got that off my chest, thanks for opening the discussion

[Gnosis5]

Another idea:

The volunteers who go to Haiti pay for all their expenses. I am almost 100% positive that their members pay for all their expenses while there. A good thing that could come out of it, at least if I were there supervising the operation, would be to teach each Haitian person how to likewise deliver a healing assist that is simple to learn, to apply, and to teach others. I would do that without any attempt to recruit them to the ranks of any organized religion or group -- they can respect themselves within their own group dynamics by providing a valuable service in a time of emergency.

In an emergency situation I could not see a Reiki practitioner or acupuncturist being of much use in propagating any simple healing assists or that being one of the aims of their respective societies.

Remember when one felt proud to be an American because we knew we could help the world? Remember the let down when we realized our leaders were leading us down a cruel path? For me it happened sometime during the Vietnam War.

When I volunteered during the firestorms in Southern California and I was in this hangar full of homeless people I uncovered the fact that some Red Cross officials overseeing their relief operations had stacks of woolen blankets in the back storeroom but were refusing to pass them out and I pointed that out, and then I assigned myself to keeping the woman's bathroom clean and stocked. Had a great time! I was just being myself, not the member of any particular society :-) Even the other members in my own group were annoyed at my being myself attitude :-) If you want to get relegated to the bottom of the heap (so they think) or "fired" (best thing that ever happened to me) or ostracized (I must be doing something right), just try being yourself, ha, ha, ha.

If you know of any group on this planet that would accept me as being myself where do I sign up?

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

I am not talking about the merits of individual Scientologists. Your refusal to acknowledge the complete failure of Scientology ignores its roots, its history, and the present day revelations of Scientologists.

I won't argue the point. Anyone who cares to make an honest appraisal of Scientology can do so now without spending a fortune in the process. I encourage people do their own research and form their own opinions.

I have known people who lives were ruined by Scientology. A friend of mine was never able to see his grandchild due to Scientologies policies. There is no good thing in Scientology that I have found.

My point, is that there is no such thing as total good, or total bad. Nor complete failure or complete success, either.

My own family was and remains torn apart by Scientology policies of disconnection. But that doesn't change the fact that a touch assist can help relieve a physical pain. Many people get a lot out of the theraputic techniques. I'd never do them myself again, because I've found a much simpler, elegant way to deal with my junk. Fanatic pro is little different than fanatic con. Except for the flavour of the polarization. Balance is what the future demands from us, if we're to shuck off the old ways of living embattled lives of suspicion and conflict.

At any rate, it doesn't look like the church of appliantology will be around much longer anyway.

[Anchor]

Regardless of the creed followed, scientology or whatever, the intent to heal together with some kind of physical guesture (which reinforces and communicates) is bound to work at some levels.

The fact that this method has a scientology "branding" does not invalidate it.

Anyone can do this (and should!)

A..

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

My point, is that there is no such thing as total good, or total bad. Nor complete failure or complete success, either.

My own family was and remains torn apart by Scientology policies of disconnection. But that doesn't change the fact that a touch assist can help relieve a physical pain. Many people get a lot out of the theraputic techniques. I'd never do them myself again, because I've found a much simpler, elegant way to deal with my junk. Fanatic pro is little different than fanatic con. Except for the flavour of the polarization. Balance is what the future demands from us, if we're to shuck off the old ways of living embattled lives of suspicion and conflict.

At any rate, it doesn't look like the church of appliantology will be around much longer anyway.

Thank you, I wish I had said it that way

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Regardless of the creed followed, scientology or whatever, the intent to heal together with some kind of physical guesture (which reinforces and communicates) is bound to work at some levels.

The fact that this method has a scientology "branding" does not invalidate it.

Anyone can do this (and should!)

A..

Exactly. When I was a devout Christian I knew that Jesus healed and taught others to heal with laying on of hands, and now I know scores of people who can heal even remotely. I just spoke with someone about that tonight who lives in Australia. However, in all my years as a Christian no one taught me how to lay my hands on or to effect any kind of healing at all, although I now hear that there are sects that do still practice healing.

[Gnosis5]

Here's a good way to windup the discussion:


If you volunteered to go to Haiti what do you see yourself doing to help set things straight again?

[Anchor]

You dont have to go physically.

A..

[morguana]

Originally Posted by Anchor

You dont have to go physically.

A..

quite! keep sending these folk your love, light and healing energy.......it will get there, sometimes before you have even finished thinking about it

meditate everyday on sending love to every being, be it animal, vegitable or mineral (or any other) we can togethter make the change happen.

and good for anyone who physically does go to places of need, regardles of creed, belief etc......they should by their very efforts be supported and applauded.
m x

[Céline]

"Yes, the happy little pawns, or children, or however you wish to look at it. But if I were a beaten down Haitian person and someone from their heart helped me lift my consciousness and attitude about my situation I would not be too choosy . "

i understand your intent, in this point..but...

i also saw it from another perspective...

Spreading "the word" by using a time of great tragedy ..is a tad manipulative dont you think?


"do not need to go physically"

So many are not there, and helping....hearts are heavy and spirits drained... need re energizing.

The resources needed to take care of the volunteers in Haiti should be carefully weighed against the need of the victims for the resources..paying for your own isnt the point...

The idea that touch heals, should not even be a debate anymore....

[mudra]

Beyond this when you think about neither good nor evil, how, then, do things appear?
Heart moves on it's own wings free from judgement and is always the place where we
are One.
Let's learn to look at the heart of things for then the many forms through which consciousness
expresses itself will have coherence.

Love Always
mudra

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Regardless of the creed followed, scientology or whatever, the intent to heal together with some kind of physical guesture (which reinforces and communicates) is bound to work at some levels.
The fact that this method has a scientology "branding" does not invalidate it.
Anyone can do this (and should!)
A..

That just simply is not true. Where are the studies that show this sort of thing works? There aren't any that I know of. My personal studies and experience of many years has proven to me that "laying on of hands" and other such healing practices simply do not work. In fact there are studies that show that praying for people doesn't actually work. See the Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP)

The real point I'd like to make is that promoting, encouraging, or validating Scientology in any way whatsoever ignores the true origin, history, and facts about Scientology that have come to light in recent years and is my view a highly irresponsible and dangerous thing to do.

No Haitian will be "healed" through Scientology or any other pseudo-science or woo-woo. They'll be healed by trained medical professionals applying proven medial science. Praying for the people in Haiti only effects the person praying and it does so by presenting the illusion of actually doing something useful. The truth is that the situation will only respond to practical solutions and methods.

Doctors, Firemen, EMTs, Structural Engineers, Logistics experts, ... these are the kinds people that are needed in Haiti. Haiti will have to completely rethought and rebuilt, a truly monumental task is ahead of them. I sincerely hope that the people of Haiti are not further victimized by opportunistic organizations like the Church of Scientology in the process but they undoubtedly will.

[Myplanet2]

The fact that there are material concerns, doesn't in anyway negate that there are spiritual ones as well.

The thing about being polarized in ones view, is that you can't be "on a side" unless you can conceive of "the other side".

There is a third option. Moving above judgement and the taking of sides, and try on the viewpoint so beautifully described by Mudra above.

[mudra]

Everything is energy and vibrations and will respond to the spiritual quality of Love .
Love has no bounderies and does'nt require a physical contact to create an effect.



Love Always
mudra

[Jack]

Touching certain points on the body in order to heal is not something confined to scientologists..




Conventional science is a sham and the only reason it works is because of the patients belief in its success. Have you ever wondered why some treatments work for some people but don't for others?

Placebos work as often as medicine works, the proof is in abundance that we are responsible for our own health through subconsciouslly adopting certain beliefs about reality.


I heard a story recently about a man who was turned away by the hospitals and given only about a month to live. He had terminal cancer and they said there was nothing more they could do, he was unfortunatly, on his own. He goes to his doctor and asks that doctor for a certain kind of chemo therapy that he had heard a lot of good things about. The doctor told him that it would take weeks to take effect and he might well be dead by then, but the man was adament that this treatment was going to save his life so the doctor complied and gave him the treatment. Within a couple of weeks most of the cancer had simply disintigrated and there was no signs of it left anywhere.

A few weeks later the man hears an official report stating that the therapy he had undergone was grossly innefective, after hearing this report the man had a relapse and his cancer returned worse then ever. After going to the doctor and telling him what he had heard in the report the doctor had a gut feeling that this man was playing a role in how the cancer reacted simply by believing something to be innefective. Being clever the doctor told him, that report was a complete lie, that stuff was very effective and we have had great success using it here, but now there is something much much better with an almost 100% success rate. He proceeded to inject the man with a saline solution. The doctor then explained that in the coming weeks the mans tumors "melted like snowballs in an oven". Its a confusing time for a mainstream doctor when conventional medicine meets real healing.


This world is littered with stories such as these! Littered with them. Ive undergone many different medical treatments as an experiment to see if my doubt in them would play any role in determining their success. I soon found the conventional medicine simply did not work for me, and still doesnt to this day.

Remember this next time you let a doctor "practise" his medicine on you.

[Myplanet2]

I just synchronistically noticed that John Travolta flew 4 tons of ready to eat meals to Haiti, along with another group of Scientology's volunteer ministers, in his own plane.

I'm sure he means well in doing this. And I'm sure his offering will help out a lot.

[Jonah]

There is some studies on this method... I am in the medical field... I have seen pain go away from a child who has the warmth of his mothers hands on him... many times...
http://www.takingcharge.csh.umn.edu/.../healing-touch
http://nccam.nih.gov/news/camstats/2...survey_fs1.htm

The goal of Healing Touch is to purposefully use the energetic interaction between the Healing Touch practitioner and the patient to restore harmony to the patient's energy system.

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

That just simply is not true. Where are the studies that show this sort of thing works? There aren't any that I know of. My personal studies and experience of many years has proven to me that "laying on of hands" and other such healing practices simply do not work. In fact there are studies that show that praying for people doesn't actually work. See the Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP)

The real point I'd like to make is that promoting, encouraging, or validating Scientology in any way whatsoever ignores the true origin, history, and facts about Scientology that have come to light in recent years and is my view a highly irresponsible and dangerous thing to do.

No Haitian will be "healed" through Scientology or any other pseudo-science or woo-woo. They'll be healed by trained medical professionals applying proven medial science. Praying for the people in Haiti only effects the person praying and it does so by presenting the illusion of actually doing something useful. The truth is that the situation will only respond to practical solutions and methods.

Doctors, Firemen, EMTs, Structural Engineers, Logistics experts, ... these are the kinds people that are needed in Haiti. Haiti will have to completely rethought and rebuilt, a truly monumental task is ahead of them. I sincerely hope that the people of Haiti are not further victimized by opportunistic organizations like the Church of Scientology in the process but they undoubtedly will.

[Céline]

Originally Posted by Jonah

I have seen pain go away from a child who has the warmth of his mothers hands on him... many times...

As a mother i can attest tot hat as well..

i also dabbled in training as an assistant midwife...

A newborns core body temperature will rise when kept close to its mother...

i know this isnt a "healing" technique...but..

When you are hurting, inside, crying..sad...why does a hug help ? (for most people)

Because..touch is healing...

Sex priestesses and priests know the importance of sexual touch as a healing tool...

this society could not handle it though sadly