Lucifer: Deity of the Elite

[Ravens and Doves]

.I think that if Lucifer retired...he or she would eventually regain their sanity. Again...this is heresy...but hope springs eternal. Retirement would sure beat the heck out of 'Earth Changes', the Battle of Armageddon, the Seven Last Plagues, the New World Order, a Demonic Theocracy, etc, etc. How 'bout it...Lucifer?


Oxy,

You are not crazy. I see you as intuitive.
You're right about Lucifer, his rebellion was
too against the life grain... thus the quarantine
of this planet and the replacement of the
Brilliant Morning Star with a kinder, gentler
sentient being to do to job. But he wasn't alone
and I've been told (and have felt) that some of
his underlings slipped below the wire and have
been wearing Lucifer's mask for ages.

I poked the dragon and got burned. I can't
go there again. I'll die. Seriously.

Reading James' story the other night triggered
some difficult memories, but he ended on a
positive note. My ex felt the negative energy
and left a message on my phone about it.

It passes through LA from time to time.... and
fools like me used to evoke the little bastards!

Some day... and it looks like that day might
come soon, the last stubborn, power-blinded
rebel will be cornered and will sound, at the
very end, like a frightened little, ugly fly about
to be swatted to oblivion..... screaming obscenities
against God and Goddess until the final moment.

Wishing All a safe and sane Samhain,

Paul

www.home.earthlink.net/~aic.net

www.home.earthlink.net/~paul_perner/

www.ravensanddoves.com

[beren]

Interesting things you said there, may I ask you what did you do when you wrote that dragon burned you and that if you try that again, you will die?

Love and blessings,

Beren

Originally Posted by Ravens and Doves

.I think that if Lucifer retired...he or she would eventually regain their sanity. Again...this is heresy...but hope springs eternal. Retirement would sure beat the heck out of 'Earth Changes', the Battle of Armageddon, the Seven Last Plagues, the New World Order, a Demonic Theocracy, etc, etc. How 'bout it...Lucifer?


Oxy,

You are not crazy. I see you as intuitive.
You're right about Lucifer, his rebellion was
too against the life grain... thus the quarantine
of this planet and the replacement of the
Brilliant Morning Star with a kinder, gentler
sentient being to do to job. But he wasn't alone
and I've been told (and have felt) that some of
his underlings slipped below the wire and have
been wearing Lucifer's mask for ages.

I poked the dragon and got burned. I can't
go there again. I'll die. Seriously.

Reading James' story the other night triggered
some difficult memories, but he ended on a
positive note. My ex felt the negative energy
and left a message on my phone about it.

It passes through LA from time to time.... and
fools like me used to evoke the little bastards!

Some day... and it looks like that day might
come soon, the last stubborn, power-blinded
rebel will be cornered and will sound, at the
very end, like a frightened little, ugly fly about
to be swatted to oblivion..... screaming obscenities
against God and Goddess until the final moment.

Wishing All a safe and sane Samhain,

Paul

www.home.earthlink.net/~aic.net

www.home.earthlink.net/~paul_perner/

www.ravensanddoves.com

[orthodoxymoron]

Thank-you Ravens and Doves. I may be insane...but I'm not crazy!

Here is something relevant to this thread that I posted on another thread:

The Aldebarans are supposedly renegade Pleiadians. Did they thumb their noses at the Pleiadian Powers That Be...and make deals with the Devil aka Draconians...to obtain Technology and Spiritual Power? Was the Pleiades really Heaven? Was the Person In Charge really God. Was Lucifer a Pleiadian who tried to get a better deal by dealing with the Dracs? Did this result in the famous War in Heaven? Did Lucifer drag one third of the Pleiadians to Aldebaran...then to Sirius...and finally to Earth? Are we all Fallen Angels? Is this why Lucifer is the God of This World? Some say Lucifer is no more...but I doubt this. Is Aldebaran still renegade Pleiadian presently? Is Sirius A and Arcturus completely unfallen Pleiadian presently? Is Sirius B and Earth in Sirius trouble? Is a final battle brewing to settle this thing once and for all?

Or...is the whole Universe under Draconian control...including the Pleiades? Did the God in the Pleiades keep this a secret to make a bad situation seem like Heaven? Did Lucifer smell a rat...and try to fight fire with fire...hoping to get technology and spirituality from the Dracs...and then turn on them? Could the final phase of this be happening presently? Is that what's brewing? Is this 'The Great Work'? Are Sirius B and Earth engaged in a rebellion against the Dracs which must be crushed? Will the Empire strike back? Does Sirius B and our Sun contain Planets in Rebellion? Do they threaten the Draconian Universal Church Theocracy? Did Lucifer mean well...but did he or she bite off more than they could chew...and go insane? I keep thinking that Lucifer is like Colonel Kurz in 'Apocalypse Now'. If Constitutional Responsible Freedom really catches fire...will this be the end of Draconian Universal Domination? I really and truly don't know. All of the above could be complete BS.

If the whole universe was Drac-controlled...and this was being hidden from you...but you figured it out. How would you fight the tyranny being effected through your beloved leader? Would you confront your leader publicly while privately dealing with the Dracs to try to get their technology and spirituality? You'd end up fighting both your beloved leader and his loyal (and clueless?) followers...plus when you double-crossed the Dracs...you'd have to fight them as well. Did Lucifer and his(her?) followers get kicked out of Heaven...and then get involved in a horrific fight with the Dracs? Was this the 600,000 year Gaian-Orion War? Supposedly no one won...they just stopped killing each other. Did a sort of 'cold-war' follow? Is this the situation we find ourselves in presently? Is this why everything is so $crewed-up? Is the New World Order a Draconian attempt to completely regain domination over humanity? Is this how much trouble we are really in...or is it much worse? I suspect that it is. Is Lucifer insane because of the hopelessness of the situation? Are all of us Renegade Pleiadians?

I continue to believe that Constitutional Responsible Freedom would be in everyone's best interest...including the Pleiadians and Dracs. The God thing really doesn't work. I suspect that Lucifer found this out the hard way. Humanity is waking up to this very harsh reality as well. If what I am thinking is true...the Pleiadian God was wrong. Lucifer was wrong. And the Draconians were (and are) wrong. Two new commandments I give unto all of you: I. Thou Shalt Have No Gods. Period. II. Thou Shalt Not Be An @sshole. Period. I really don't want to fight with the Dracs. I can't believe that there is no possibility of them warming to the idea of Responsible Freedom. I don't know what made them so mean...but perhaps there is a legitimate reason. Regardless...why not base the Universe on the best principles...rather than on brute-force? Why is this so hard? Lord Draco...we need to talk. Soon.

I don't know who the good-guys and who the bad-guys are anymore. Do you?

[orthodoxymoron]

I posted this elsewhere...but it seemed to fit this thread as well. Don't forget to watch the third episode of 'V' tonight. Think about the following while you watch.

Could it be that Satan and Demons are really Interdimensional Draconian Reptilians who hate Humans? Could it be that God, Lucifer, and Jesus are Pleiadian Humans...and that even Lucifer is a good-guy or good-gal? They could all possibly be good. Could it be that they are all at odds with the Dracs...and that they simply have different philosophies regarding how to deal with them? Do they lead the three or four factions which I suspect are headquartered in underground bases...here and on the Moon? I believe in the literal existence of all of the above. With this in mind...consider the following link regarding God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc: http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html Do the Dracs control the Vatican...against the will of the Curia and the Pope? Is the term 'Luciferian' really a cover for 'Draconian'? I keep thinking that the Dracs need to be kicked out of our Solar System. I keep thinking that no one should bow down and worship anyone...including worshipping God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc. We should simply reverence the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Christlike Holy Spirit. We should see Christ in All Persons. Lucifer...is this correct? I continue to suspect that you would be ok if the Dracs were gone...you retired...and if our Solar System was based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. I still wish to hear you improvise on the Cavaille-Coll pipe-organ at Saint Sulpice...after this mess is resolved. Lucifer...can you use your Galactic Rolodex to arrange a Solar System Exorcism...and to arrange replacing the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and have this apply to the entire Solar System? I tend to think that you can. Perhaps you have already called in the strike. If so...thank-you in advance. See you at Saint Sulpice. Namaste Lucifer.

Could the four factions which I discussed previously...be lead by the following?

1. God (Pleiadian Human) - Zionist - Theocratic
2. Lucifer (Pleiadian Human) - Teutonic Zionist - Giza Intelligence - Dictatorship
3. Jesus (Pleiadian Human) - Andromedan - Christlike Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
4. Satan (Draconian Interdimensional Reptilian) - Demands Worship, Praise, Submission, and Obedience. Plays God. Dominates #1 and #2. Attacks #3 with a vengeance.

Is #4 the real problem? Could I convince most of you Dracs to choose #3...and rebel against your leaders? You have nothing to lose but your chains.

[THE eXchanger]

the bad guys, put 'jesus' out there, front row and centre

the bad guys, put 'lucifer' out there, front row and centre

(if you don't want people to find the right guy,
where do you hide him???)

front fow and centre

[orthodoxymoron]

Right. Consider the crucifix (especially the bent cross) and the mass (symbolically crucifying Christ over and over again...in a symbolic ritual human sacrifice). They have nothing to do with the actual Teachings of Jesus. Lucifer may be the patsie or the fall-guy for the Dracs. I don't know. All of this is very weird. I'm just considering various possibilities. My mind is not made up...so please feel free to confuse me with the facts. I'm easily confused.

[THE eXchanger]

"Lucifer" is a name for a new son/or sun
a second 'morning star', so-to-speak,
of the 'original' light-bearing substance
and, he was NOT some evil being
cooked up,
in poor transalations
of old writings,
about an old babaloyn king
(who was the real evil one)
and, was fostered into being equated with being lucifer
or, being satan
and, it was done,
to make people scared of things
and, to think,
that the bible/and, the church could save them

the jews do NOT utilise lucifer, why is that ???

it is kind of similiar,
to those, who believe,
that jesus,
paid a price, for their sins,
jesus, was a mortal man,
who, in his last days,
turned on his 1,000 points of light,
which allowed him, a level of mastery,
there are many, in this world,
who are NOW close to turning on 1,000 points of light,
or have !!!

let's face it,
if you sin,
you have to karmically pay the price
for your actions - and, your sins

praying to jesus
can NOT save you from your sins

only you, can save yourself

there are many pieces of proof in this world,
that Lucifer, is simply, an observor,
of all, that goes on !!!
and, hasn't yet taken any action,
in this, the 4th/5th/6th/7th/8th worlds of gaia,
maybe, in the 9th world of gaia,
he will put in an appearance

also--4th is only going to get you etheric

5th is only going to get you low astral

6th is only going to get you high astral

(now, don't forget hidden hand
- that's were he'd like to have you harvested to)
and, that is NOT where you want to land !!!

and, 7th is only going to get you low causal
and, to the door of the angelic planes/or realms

8th is going to get you mid causal
and, to the door of the buddhic planes/or realms

and, 9th is going to get you into the 'new world'
and, high causal ~ which does eXist NOW
some of us, are already there

some of you, are already there in your dream_time

there are answers,
trouble is, those with them,
seem to have their hands tied,
and, can NOT afford to finish their project

that makes me so sad

[Lionhawk]

Many of the answers you seek will not be found here on the Planet. What you seek is out there. If you continue to seek with the present methods that you are employing, you will chase your tail for the rest of your days. That's a long time my friend. Time for you to go within and try that approach, as this approach is going to take a toll on you if it hasn't already. To seek truth, one must use what works. If this isn't working for you then common sense will tell you to change your strategy to something that does work. Interesting as to your tenacity is very strong indeed...... but is it finding the results you seek?

Blessings

[orthodoxymoron]

Thank-you Susan and Lionhawk.

I am now tending to make a distinction between Lucifer and Satan...as not being the same being. It's probably a bad idea to follow either one...but I'm thinking that Satan is the truly evil and dangerous being. I'm thinking that Lucifer is a Pleiadian Human...and that Satan is a Draconian Interdimensional Reptilian.

I'm finding answers...but I don't necessarily like these answers. And yes...it is taking a toll. I fear that I'm suffering a Drac-Attack 24/7. One can find both God and Satan...when looking within. Why do you find fault with my methodology? I don't really care...but I am a bit curious. I'm just asking questions. I like to ask questions. My approach is both internal and external...but I don't do hokus-pocus stuff. I'm finding and losing my faith...simultaneously and continuously. Is there any easy way to do this? The discomfort and pain connected with discovering the truth and doing the right thing...may keep most people from both. Thus...the Dracs retain their control over humanity...or so it seems to me.

As for chasing my tail (notice the Drac?)...

[Lionhawk]

Don't take what I said as the wrong way. As in the word fault. I too was in a position of asking many of the same questions as you are doing now. I was motivated by terror to solving those questions. I searched for years trying to solve those questions and never found them outside myself. One day I went to the Father of our Catholic church and asked for the churches help. They turned me down. I knew in my heart that God and Jesus were real. I had no other recourse but to find them and get the answers to my questions. It came down to that as there were no other options. Which someday I hope you come to realize when you exhaust all of your options. When you get there it will be very clear what you must do. I was only trying to save you some time. As I have already stated before I was a hard head. And don't take this the wrong way either as I see what I went through and what you are doing pretty much the same thing with exception of the motivation. I can only tell you what I had to do to find out. I promise you on my life that you will never find these answers on the outside of yourself in this world. That is not to say that you can't find the answers outside yourself but it will have to be from somewhere else. And you must go to where that somewhere else is. It isn't here and if you don't mind me if I sit here and watch you try to prove that wrong. I am not making this up and these are not my rules to begin with. I also bet the time you spend is going to be much longer the way you are going about it then the other way. But you are just starting in a matter of speaking so you have all the time you want. It is your free will agency I will respect. So please don't think I am judging you or find fault in your methods as by the time you get there, you will be a better person for it. And much less hard headed and humbled by the experience of finding those answers. I promise you that. So have at it my friend. Blessings on your quest. When you find the answers, let me know what you find.


Peace

[orthodoxymoron]

Thank-you Lionhawk.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom is the best answer I've found so far...but I'm still searching. Perhaps I'll even find Osama and the WMD's...as well as the real killer OJ was looking for. Where are the truly enlightened people...who have found the truth the right way? I'm searching for them as well.

[THE eXchanger]

satan and santa

[THE eXchanger]

to my knowledge,
the dark side - do NOT have Lucifer
they have NEVER been able to conquere him UP !!!

so, if they don't have him

and, you don't have him

and, if they don't want you to find him

wouldn't it be a gr8 idea,

to tell you, they worship him

and, you would think he is bad ...

that would be a brilliant idea

why, did Helena Blavtasky
call her newsletter; OHH LUCIFER ???

so, MAYBE the good question is

where is he ???

once, he sat in the ethers,
across the table from me
at my dining room table,
observing me,
albeit, i did NOT want to look at him
NOR, listen to him
i did know, who he was

i hate to admit this - but, in that moment

- i felt a gr8 peace,
albeit, i wasn't quite sure,
how to deal with him

so, i asked 3 times,for him to leave

and, he disappeared !!!

perhaps, i should call him in,
conjure him up, and, see what happens,
if he comes in,
in 100% alignment with my missions/purposes/and, tasks,
at least, i would know,
what side he is on

i'd rather not do this alone...

hey GNOSIS5 -- WANT to COME OVER

where's Jester, when you need him ???

[THE eXchanger]

i do know,
that jesus, eXisted

i also know,
he was NO different than you, or i

albeit, he was an ascended being
in the end of this lifetime

he worked hard, and, honed his craft

there have been many,

magical mystics, like jesus !!!

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by eXchanger

to my knowledge,
the dark side - do NOT have Lucifer
they have NEVER been able to conquere him UP !!!

so, if they don't have him

and, you don't have him

and, if they don't want you to find him

wouldn't it be a gr8 idea,

to tell you, they worship him

and, you would think he is bad ...

that would be a brilliant idea

why, did Helena Blavtasky
call her newsletter; OHH LUCIFER ???

so, MAYBE the good question is

where is he ???

once, he sat in the ethers,
across the table from me
at my dining room table,
observing me,
albeit, i did NOT want to look at him
NOR, listen to him
i did know, who he was

i hate to admit this - but, in that moment

- i felt a gr8 peace,
albeit, i wasn't quite sure,
how to deal with him

so, i asked 3 times,for him to leave

and, he disappeared !!!

perhaps, i should call him in,
conjure him up, and, see what happens,
if he comes in,
in 100% alignment with my missions/purposes/and, tasks,
at least, i would know,
what side he is on

i'd rather not do this alone...

hey GNOSIS5 -- WANT to COME OVER

where's Jester, when you need him ???

When I reviewed a lifetime where I was definitely on the darkside -- one of those Illuminati aristocrats (ever heard of the comedy skit, "The Aristocrats"? that's truly what we did). The best we could conjure up was the demi-god PAN and share some tantric sex with him. Even he was really not that evil looking, just liked Tantric sex with young women.

That was one of the "lighter" things we did as Illuminati.

Just goes to show that you can BE anyone -- and then change your mind -- pure white magic lasts forever.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by eXchanger

to my knowledge,
the dark side - do NOT have Lucifer
they have NEVER been able to conquere him UP !!!

so, if they don't have him

and, you don't have him

and, if they don't want you to find him

wouldn't it be a gr8 idea,

to tell you, they worship him

and, you would think he is bad ...

that would be a brilliant idea

why, did Helena Blavtasky
call her newsletter; OHH LUCIFER ???

so, MAYBE the good question is

where is he ???

once, he sat in the ethers,
across the table from me
at my dining room table,
observing me,
albeit, i did NOT want to look at him
NOR, listen to him
i did know, who he was

i hate to admit this - but, in that moment

- i felt a gr8 peace,
albeit, i wasn't quite sure,
how to deal with him

so, i asked 3 times,for him to leave

and, he disappeared !!!

perhaps, i should call him in,
conjure him up, and, see what happens,
if he comes in,
in 100% alignment with my missions/purposes/and, tasks,
at least, i would know,
what side he is on

i'd rather not do this alone...

hey GNOSIS5 -- WANT to COME OVER

where's Jester, when you need him ???

eXchanger, this may sound unromantic, but if he sat across the table from me I'd ask him, "What incident are you stuck in?" and I would start helping him process that trauma out of himself, to his great relief I'm sure. But right now I'm busy with a 4D "Satrap" who thinks he has a right to push people around on this earth. So Lucifer is going to have to take a number :-)

[orthodoxymoron]

I'm wondering if most conjuring (spirits, entities, ufo's), channeling, and seances really involve contacting Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians (DIR). Perhaps Lucifer doesn't go 'out' much...if you know what I mean.

If I'm correct regarding the four hypothetical factions...why can't all of the factions unite around Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom? I think the Dracs are the major problem...but why do they hate Humans...and why especially do they hate Jesus? What is the real history here? Do they have legitimate grievances...or are they simply incurable and unimaginably horrible SOB's?

The Illuminati are into really weird sex...aren't they? Why is this? Are the Illuminati perfectly possessed by Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians? Or...are the Illuminati really Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians? Is the Bavarian Illuminati different than the Illuminati...or are they the same thing? Are the Illuminati really Zionists...or are they Teutonic Zionists? I'm just seeing a whole lot of Dracs possessing a whole lot of humans...and harassing the rest of us...some more than others. How do we pull off a Solar System Exorcism? Has this already been arranged? Is it already in progress? Is something brewing? Hmmmmm. Mind you...I'm just asking questions and wondering about a lot of things. I really don't know what the hell is going on.

Seriously...when this mess gets resolved...I will have no problem making friends with members of all factions. I'm more curious than anything. I feel a certain amount of fear and uncertainty...but absolutely no hatred whatsoever. It just seems as though there is a ticking time-bomb which needs to somehow be defused. I'm really not into the War of the Worlds, Masters of the Universe, and Star Wars stuff.

One other thing. If Satan doesn't exist...how do we know that Source exists? Doesn't a lot of this boil down to believing what we want to believe...regardless of the evidence...or the lack thereof?

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

I'm wondering if most conjuring (spirits, entities, ufo's), channeling, and seances really involve contacting Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians (DIR). Perhaps Lucifer doesn't go 'out' much...if you know what I mean.

If I'm correct regarding the four hypothetical factions...why can't all of the factions unite around Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom? I think the Dracs are the major problem...but why do they hate Humans...and why especially do they hate Jesus? What is the real history here? Do they have legitimate grievances...or are they simply incurable and unimaginably horrible SOB's?

The Illuminati are into really weird sex...aren't they? Why is this? Are the Illuminati perfectly possessed by Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians? Or...are the Illuminati really Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians? Is the Bavarian Illuminati different than the Illuminati...or are they the same thing? Are the Illuminati really Zionists...or are they Teutonic Zionists? I'm just seeing a whole lot of Dracs possessing a whole lot of humans...and harassing the rest of us...some more than others. How do we pull off a Solar System Exorcism? Has this already been arranged? Is it already in progress?

Seriously...when this mess gets resolved...I will have no problem making friends with members of all factions. I'm more curious than anything. I feel a certain amount of fear and uncertainty...but absolutely no hatred whatsoever. It just seems as though there is a ticking time-bomb which needs to somehow be defused. I'm really not into the War of the Worlds, Masters of the Universe, and Star Wars stuff.

The pattern at this time and involving earth from what I have seen in my own sessions and those of others (my thread about between lives research goes into more detail) is the heirarchy is the greys (usually in a telepathic pod) then a Reptilian handler, and then some creepy looking Annunaki types controlling the Reptilians. We have not asked for higher than that. Let's face it these guys take some time to process and we don't get paid by the hour when we process them to a level of sanity :-) Not that I don't get personal gratification from knowing that one more pod has been disabled. But I'm looking for bigger fish to rehabilitate, plus I have my own spiritual condition to address, and plenty of beings are connected up with me.

I just got out of a session where I had been what my Annunaki master affectionately called, "My Monster". I was a Reptilian sort. What if you found out that this whole show is being run by some 16thdimensional huge ugly white grub-like being punching a few buttons on a console? And he had a bad day....that would put some of our favorite bad guys in their proper perspective.

Believe it or not, we all got here in the same boat and we all started out with wonderful goals and somewhere above time we still have those beautiful goals. A better question might be, "What was the 'original sin'?" [error is a better word]. I use that word "sin" very lightly.

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

I'm busy with a 4D "Satrap" who thinks he has a right to push people around on this earth. So Lucifer is going to have to take a number :-)

hmmm...is it a Persian
that goes by the name Ahriman ???
that you have hunted down ???

as for lucifer...
maybe, i'll draw his soul sigil
like a grail cup which holds the 'royal blood' of 'all the chakras'
the so-called eliXer of life
and, draw it in a way,
it reaches all the way up to the godhead
(the cath'o'licks stole the original one, and, likely corrupted it)
so, i;ll draw it, with 3 straws
making sure, it will hold the 'true' potential
of the all in all, in all of us

coffee time

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

, "What was the 'original sin'?" [error is a better word]. I use that word "sin" very lightly.

there was NONE !!!

MAYBE, THIS IS ALL
just some kind of "wild turkey" hunt ???

BTW...reminds me, isn't it

happy "turkey" day ~ very soon, to our american friends !!!

[orthodoxymoron]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

The pattern at this time and involving earth from what I have seen in my own sessions and those of others (my thread about between lives research goes into more detail) is the heirarchy is the greys (usually in a telepathic pod) then a Reptilian handler, and then some creepy looking Annunaki types controlling the Reptilians. We have not asked for higher than that. Let's face it these guys take some time to process and we don't get paid by the hour when we process them to a level of sanity :-) Not that I don't get personal gratification from knowing that one more pod has been disabled. But I'm looking for bigger fish to rehabilitate, plus I have my own spiritual condition to address, and plenty of beings are connected up with me.

I just got out of a session where I had been what my Annunaki master affectionately called, "My Monster". I was a Reptilian sort. What if you found out that this whole show is being run by some 16thdimensional huge ugly white grub-like being punching a few buttons on a console? And he had a bad day....that would put some of our favorite bad guys in their proper perspective.

Believe it or not, we all got here in the same boat and we all started out with wonderful goals and somewhere above time we still have those beautiful goals. A better question might be, "What was the 'original sin'?" [error is a better word]. I use that word "sin" very lightly.

Thank-you Gnosis5. You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. I will be reading your threads and posts...to learn what I can. I tend to think that these guys have very advanced holographic technology...and you may be right about an ugly white grub-like being behind the curtain...controlling real or illusory beings...or a combination of the two. Perhaps Humans control the Reps and Greys...to control us. Who knows?

I majorly wonder about the 'original sin'. I think this is a key question...if not THE question. I've been recently irreverently speculating that 'Playing God' is the 'original sin'...and that there should be No Gods...Period. I really don't want to hurt or kill anyone...even the really, really bad-guys and bad-gals. I truly want everyone to make it...somehow. It takes all kinds...but sometimes I wonder why.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

Thank-you Gnosis5. You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. I will be reading your threads and posts...to learn what I can. I tend to think that these guys have very advanced holographic technology...and you may be right about an ugly white grub-like being behind the curtain...controlling real or illusory beings...or a combination of the two. Who knows?

I majorly wonder about the 'original sin'. I think this is a key question...if not THE question. I really don't want to hurt or kill anyone...even the really, really bad-guys and bad-gals. I truly want everyone to make it...somehow.

If you can wade through a really technical answer to the "original error" try seeing if you can get through some material on the internet called TROM by Dennis Stephens, then the next step would be to find a practitioner to help you go and look at your own hyperhistory from that viewpoint and tell me what YOU see!

At some point the reading and questioning stops and one must simply go and look and resultiingly "Know".

best wishes in your quest to get your answers.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by eXchanger

there was NONE !!!

!

Wish that were true but that's not what I'm seeing. "Error" is a concept that presumes a certain attitude, so, yes, once I totally duplicate what went wrong and vanish it as a continuing compulsive response, then of course there will be no longer the considerations of "Errors".

But I don't see anyone yet, including our enllightened Selves, who is totally free of compulsive computations and behaviors and reactions. That sort of being would have had to voluntarily come into this universe from a universe where fixed duallities do not exist, and they would have had to come rather recently and still remain unscathed from their this-universe encounters.

Otherwise to say there is no original error is premature for most all of us. There will be a point where we can all say that and have it be true in practice.

love,
Gnosis

[THE eXchanger]

there is a 'white cross' technique
that works on some beings ~ although it is only utilised
as a 'last resort'

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

'Playing God' is the 'original sin'...and that there should be No Gods...Period. I really don't want to hurt or kill anyone...even the really, really bad-guys and bad-gals. I truly want everyone to make it...somehow.

We all have the ability to be co-creator types of god

(even, i still do NOT have an answer)

however, i know, what is NOT god

There is NO such thing as death - there is simply
'energetic transmission'
where something alters/changes/and, shifts
into something else
so, you can NOT kill anything.

Hurt is rather subjective
~as, in this world,
we have found,
most hurt is housed in the emotional body,
which is just one of your assortment of
lower density bodies which eXists in 3D
(and, most people, are NOT even masters of that)

and, it does NOT eXist in the dimensional bodies
since, if you attain / and, maintain a level
then that level is clear
unless you allow something, back in
to take you back into a state of NOT clear

Many people have hearts-that are stuffed full
of etheric daggers/spears; etc.,
which need to be removed

We had things, in our heart / and, in our shoulder
that we removed back in 2000/2001/and, 2002,
when we became aware of our own ability,
to do SER / or spirit entity removal work.
(ironically, the heart ones,
were related to an old cycle in Atlantis)

We just went clear through 9 densities/and, 33 dimensions
and, did almost all of this work, ourselves

~ although we did pay someone to do a chart for us,
(which we discovered,
was based on, the materials /and, studies of many different people,
who are great healers, and, amasing light_workers

they operated, with an aresonal of attachments,
they sent to all their clients,
with the exception of us

They were a very good researcher,
and, had utilised an aersonal of books,
written by many other people,
to determine, the best way, to do their work
(which, they were very good at)
and, we would say,
they are one of very few people,
who have the abilities to do SER work
in this world.

From a simple/yet, very comprehesive chart,
they were able to determine,
what was right, and, what was wrong,
and, from that information,
i was able to determine,
what to adjust/and, take out

At the time, they created the chart,
they were working on other people first,
so our work, got pushed to the side,
and, as soon, as, i received the chart,
i went to work, to get rid of all the things,
that did NOT belong, by the time,
she got around to my work,
the worst stuff, i had already tossed.

Things like the SPE ~ suppressor parasite entites,
and, guardian devils, etc.,
and, we actually removed them ourselves,
(confirmed by the chart maker)
prior to them, starting to do any work on us.

We do know, that this person,
did help us, and, that this person,
definitely had a team of beings,
working with them, that made this work,
very easy for us, to do, collectively.

(if you do NOT have the will,
to lose the things, that do NOT belong,
it will be a very difficult task,
to go clean/and, to go clear)

acknowledgement of any set of circumstances
and, acceptance of same, is what allows it,
just as, you can NOT hope for great abudance,
when you do NOT bless, what you already have !!!

Unfortunately, this work, is very intensive,
and, it is NOT for the 'weak hearted, or weak minded'
and, it is necessary for the practioneer,
to explain to their clients, exactly what is going on,
unfortunately, the burden for this,
kept falling back on us,
and resulted, in a horrific set of circumstances,
where, i lost a long-term friend,
when the practioneer,
would NOT take responsibility,
for a set of misconstrued information,
they erroroneously supplied,
to my friend, which created a lot of disinformation
~and, ultimately destroyed an important friendship.

We spent nearly 70 hrs, helping this person-for free

There are many things,
that lurk in higher dimensions/and, higher densities,
that can be taken out
(just ask gnosis-since, i took, quite a few of them,
out of her upper eXpressions)

BTW 15th exists, in your 2nd matrix - which should be completed

so, whatever this thing is,
it is tangled up, on the 3D field, of your third matrix,
and, it is a 2 matrix being, operating on 3d/15d
(thanks gnosis, as, this taught me something,
i cleansed/and, cleaned, YOU from 4D up)
in the future, i'll go zero-point to three,
and, then, 4 upwards
(always learning, something new, and, valueable)
thank you !!!

love/susan
the eXchanger