Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth...

wilsonericq7 · 11-21-2008, 11:40 AM

Hello all,

I love the story I am reading regarding the wingmakers. I am new to the site as of last week and have my filters on right now; if nothing else I am enjoying the read.

I am puzzled, however, as this story appears as a source for research in some of these threads. As science is my trade I have the obvious traps and limitations when exploring outside possibilities/probabilities.

My question, "Is this myth a vehichle for truth?"

Your thoughts,

Peace

Ashatav · 11-24-2008, 09:38 AM

I stoped believing in the wingmakers material when I read in the second interview with Dr. Neruda that the Bush senior's New World Order is what they want to this world.
Read it in the second interview!

The people must know these kind of information about wingmakers.

Cheerszoo!

wilsonericq7 · 11-24-2008, 10:37 AM

Thanks for the reply; however I am fuzzy on your request. Am I clear we are to read an interview with Dr. Neruda? Who did this interview?

Ashatav · 11-24-2008, 10:46 AM

hahah good question, I don't know but she seems to not know much about the subjet. She is like neutral in the interview.

Cheers.

Chris1617 · 11-24-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonericq7

Thanks for the reply; however I am fuzzy on your request. Am I clear we are to read an interview with Dr. Neruda? Who did this interview?

It is not known, Wilson, whether the interviews actually took place. Remember this is a modern myth. The story and interviews are a platform giving the philosophy, the paintings, and other media a context having a fairly large degree of truth in our world.

The interviews may have actually existed or they may, with content less than 100% factual, be the creation of James who is credited with creating all the WMM. See his comments in the Q&A sessions under "Creator" at www.wingmakers.com.

The name Neruda, BTW, is a modern mythical name for "the message bearer". This can be seen in Neruda the writer who was a messenger for the people of his country, and also the name of the messenger in the movie "Postman."

Chris

dolphin · 12-06-2008, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashatav

I stoped believing in the wingmakers material when I read in the second interview with Dr. Neruda that the Bush senior's New World Order is what they want to this world.
Read it in the second interview!

The people must know these kind of information about wingmakers.

Cheerszoo!

Ashatav, you've raised some interesting arguments. i too had some nagging doubts when i read that part of wingmaker's. it would be interesting to have SANAT do a muscle test and calibrate it for it's veracity! having troulbe also w the art...i studied art history. the babylonians, sumerians, egyptians, ancient asian and mayan art is "high" art. why is wingmaker's art not of this caliber?

ENdJOY · 12-06-2008, 05:32 AM

I'd like to try and shed some light on these two points you bring up.

When the website first came out, the second half of the Fourth interview was not included...it goes into some detail explaining how the NWO would begin the process of unifing the world's populations and eventually bring about equality for all. While the PTB believe that they are doing one thing (gaining control and power) they are actually working for the Unification Force, tearing down the walls built up by the Heirarcy, Religion, Culture (nations), Science, and Politics...and he explained how any and all "change" requires chaos...even when you change the water in your fish tank, there is chaos...changing the world, will be far more chaotic.

He also explained how the three seats of power were used to manipulate the masses into such a state of fear, that they would beg for chips, Nat ID cards, and a cashless society... those things were easily dismissed a decade ago...perhaps you should read the Interviews again

As for the Art...it was not designed to represent a culture, it was designed to be a "tool". The vivid colors resonate where they touch each other...it was all done with tiny lazer-ed dots, that do not quite touch so that they could move about freely... try looking at them with zoom or a magnifying glass... or in a room with nothing on but the TV, and watch how they move, and invite you into their energy stream of other dimensional frequencies.

Once you discern the purpose of the WM's materials, the tools (Art Music and Poetry) take on new meaning, and can be appreciated for their depth of genius...and one can hear the messages they silently convey.

pilot · 12-06-2008, 06:06 AM

I just finished reading the interview with "James" Karry and Bill conducted and found it very interesting. The follow-up questions in the latter part of the dialog were ones that I found myself asking as I read it - specifically, how is what Wingmakers saying different from eastern philosophy and the stated goals of meditation in order to transcend the mind chatter and identification with material reality, the "prison" or matrix...

the answer seemed to allude to the ancient teachings no longer being appropriate to our current technological advancement, and that what we all truly fear is stillness, nothingness that is the state of the sovereign integral.

OK, one other point that James made several times is that it is counterproductive to get caught up in a mythology or master/student mindset, and I will buy that for sure. The most important thing he had to say in my view is the breathing method he called "quantum moment". All the rest is a story, a mythology, not necessary to the revealing of who I really am. The pictures are pretty, the story is interesting, but simple is key.

Why not promote the breathing method and let each one discover the one true source without all the window dressing?

To be honest, when I first saw the Wingmaker site a few years ago I thought, "wow, what a clever way to market those paintings!!"

I don't have to believe anything about anything-the truth is in here.

EarthBowl · 12-06-2008, 03:56 PM

Thank you for your insights. Though I relatively NEW (9 months) to the Wingmakers material- it felt like home from the beginning of my interaction with it. This Camelot interview feels like an expansive new level of understanding/ experience for me. I do not understand all but I am approaching it with my Neutral heart and awaiting the revelation of Soverign Integral. I appreciate serious discussion.
In oneness, equality and truthfulness.

micjer · 12-06-2008, 05:00 PM

I did like his breathing exercise for meditation

dim · 12-06-2008, 06:03 PM

What baffles me the most all the time in all those materials is why those so called "advanced" beings like Anu suffer from power greediness or feel the need to create hordes of slaves to mine gold and such, makes me wonder
what is so "advanced" to that , or how those "advanced" Atlantians take the bite and incarnate human bodies and stuff like that.
All those things seem not "advanced" at all to me, it may be i don't know,
it's just this type of "advancement" really scares me.

Apart from that i am glad to see the bits and pieces of truth reaching Camelot
even in the form of the wingmakers, truth, even hijacked or distorted, can make it to the heart and awaken the "void" or "silence" or "presence" within.

Sanat · 12-06-2008, 06:26 PM

His effort towards taking away all that which the "spiritual ego" clings to and make people realize that they are far from truth of the Self even if they are somewhat on the right track by moving into the "spiritual domain" is effective. And so is his analogy with the dark room. Socrates dedicated his whole life towards showing people how little they really know in proportions to what they "thought they knew", and thus giving them the opportunity admit to the lies they had lived on, and start the real and authentic search from a point of not-knowing. Reaching the point of not-knowing is the hardest part for most people, and also the essential first step in the authentic search for Truth. I feel his effort is along these lines, and therefore of high integrity.

His "new/fresh" concepts and words serve this purpose also, and so does his "denial" that any known "figure" ever realized the true Self/Oneness. His whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with. Only by letting go of all such identifications can one get a taste of real Oneness which he calls the "Sovereign Integral". I really enjoyed the freshness of this interview as one of the better things Camelot has done lately.

The Anu story is somewhat similar to what is only vaguely hinted upon in the Handbooks from George Green.

His "quantum breath" method etc. is a very good method for getting glimpses of the state of no-mind and of learning to always come back to the present here and now. Training the mind to not run into past/future "dreams" all the time. There is a saying in the east (at least I have heard it somewhere

) that if you can sit still with closed eyes and remain totally present for just 5 full minutes you have realized the Self. If you "forget yourself" in a daydream for as little as just a second you must start all over again. Trying this is a great way to feel how strong the mind-prison really is. And it can also be humbling and a tell-tale sign of where one really is along the Scale (this test is also independent of "knowledge" just like the quantum breath method). Rather strange that we should not be able to control our own mind and instead it controls us, is it not? Like a dog walking its owner and not the other way around....

That being said: Even a small glimpse of clairty is enough to tell us which direction to move towards. Without such a glimpse we are all fumbling around in the dark room no matter how much "knowledge" we think we have gathered. That accumulated "knowledge" is, in fact, the very darkness that prevent us from seeing clearly.

milk and honey · 12-07-2008, 12:23 PM

I'll put it back when i've edited it

milk and honey · 12-07-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanat

His (James') "new/fresh" concepts and words serve this purpose also, and so does his "denial" that any known "figure" ever realized the true Self/Oneness. His whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with. Only by letting go of all such identifications can one get a taste of real Oneness which he calls the "Sovereign Integral". I really enjoyed the freshness of this interview as one of the better things Camelot has done lately.

The truths that "James" includes in his work are taken from the spiritual teachings of the past. He has obviously read them and the countless commentaries on them. These concepts of truth which he simply re-packages with a few clinical terms of his own are not new or fresh. For thousands of years the spiritual adepts have been teaching that the individual soul (the intelligent fragment in matter of the spiritual- Self) is trapped in the dualistic polarities of the outer-ego (the carnal mind) and that this keeps souls trapped in the mass consciousness (the world) and ever mindless of the higher- Self.

Does that sound familiar? Just transcribe it with all "James" new words, and his own mis-representations and there it is, 'shiny new' "Wingmakers" to help us go "where no man has gone before."

The adepts have known Oneness intimately and taught the Way for ages:

"The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of Spirit personified) is within you".

"Seek and you will find (your real-Self within)" ...... "Knock and the (inner) door shall be opened (to conscious awareness)" --- Jesus the Christ.

Guatama also taught us to seek the light of Self- knowledge within. He called it Buddha Mind. The Buddha Self must 'cleanse' the dualistic lower-ego from the 'mental poisons' (false concepts) which keep the soul ignorant and stuck in 'worldliness' (the mass consciousness).

Does that sound familiar?

In Krishna's teachings, the same concepts appear .... "Krishna (the teacher) was the higher- Mind and Arjuna (the student) was the soul in matter. Again, the concept that the soul can awaken to spirit. See Krishna (the higher- Self) riding in his carriage with Arjuna. Krishna has a steady hand on the reigns of 4 horses (the 4 bodies of man ) all acting under the direction and superior intelligence of Krishna (the higher- Self).

In this scene the physical and subtle bodies (the 4 horses) have become obedient servants to the higher-Self because the dualistic egoic impulses have been inactivated and stilled. The soul - arjuna - is freed from the pull of the senses and the lower- ego (wild horses) and realises the joy of Oneness with Krishna who steers the horses with consummate ease. The adepts have all delivered the same basic message... Go within and realise the "kingdom", the "Buddha" and "Krishna-consciousness". Different words for the higher-Self..... same solution to the human condition.

Does that sound familiar too?

It should if you've been reading the WMM. But James prefers to play semantic games with the terms 'God, Spirit, Soul, atma' etc which the historically identifiable adepts used in their spiritual teachings. He believes that those concepts originated not in the higher- Mind of the adepts but in what he calls the "Human Mind System". Consequently, he believes they're just another historical deception.

But They're not. Everything James has written about the 'Sovereign Integral' is a carbon copy of the Spiritual-Self / God-consciousness / Buddha-Mind / Krishna- consciousness / Christ- consciousness /Atma / God / Spirit etc etc etc as taught by the historical adepts. Every one of those terms signify the HIGHER- SELF (ie the "brand new" "Sovereign Integral") and like James, the adepts have all taught that IT IS WITHIN OURSELVES NOT SEPARATE OR OUTSIDE OF OURSELVES as James seems to think they did. His failure to discern that, puts him at the level of understanding of a christan sunday school teacher. The other alternative is that he has constructed that straw man only to demolish it. But why?

Because it demolishes virtually every other source of spiritual information which we are likely ever to come across. His denials and dismissals are a weapon of mass destruction designed to set James personally and the WMM apart from virtually everything else in the field of spirituality and metaphysics. Pretty ambitious eh? Everything must be demolished including the US Constitution. The NWO is after all an inevitable step on the path to freedom is it not?

James seems just as confused about ascension, averring that somehow ascension was taught by the adepts as a belief - again the product of the "HMS" - in an external union with an external God source. They never taught that at all, as i've shown.

Jesus ascended. But James misrepresents the concept of ascension. Jesus' soul united with the Christ-consciousness and ascended to his highest Self - the I AM. (the 'Father'). He did not go to an external place. His soul rose to permanent union with his spiritual- Self. He ascended to a 'place' in consciousness.

I realise that James doesn't believe in the version of ascension which he dismisses but he must believe that the adepts share a similar delusion with those modern folk who believe ascension is something that will happen to them as a result of a wave of energy in 2012.

Somehow, after all his misunderstandings James + the WM acknowledge Jesus as a high Spiritual Helper of humanity. Many of the 'alien saviors' like to say that they share the stage with Jesus but i believe the pretense is purely for convenience to cast their nets as wide as possible. Urantia, Nesara, Galactic Federation, semjase group, and many others include him in their line-up and 'ride to earth' on his coat tails. One iron in the fire is Jesus' return to Eath don't forget. The possibilities are obvious.

We can rationalise James' denial of the enlightened adepts' teachings any way we please, yet that is where he got most of his own schpiel. If Jesus, Guatama and others had not realised Oneness with the true- Self they simply could not have concieved, nor expressed so elegantly, the concepts which reveal their self-mastery. All James has done is repackage them and their work without due acknowledgement and then proceeded to invalidate their concepts as merely an ignorant expression of the HMS.

There are several possible reasons why James' 'whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with" but only some are valid. One is "in the moment" to let go of false concepts that keep the soul's attention focussed in the lower- ego, so that one can experience direct awareness of the spiritual-Self. Another is "in the moment" to let go of all concepts of the outer-mind to experience that union with the higher-Self. Yet another reason "James" may be "taking things away that people identify with" is so that he can summarily dismiss the true adepts and their teachings and substitute his own agenda - and those who back him - in their place. That's a lot different to sharing the stage with them and representing their teachings truthfully.

So i wouldn't rush to impute a pure motive to James' WMM when so many obvious problems are evident.

My reading of "james" is that he/she is part of a sophisticated chorus of psy-operatives who are trying to sever this generation from the past. It is also evident to me, from other comments he makes and the stories he invents, that he is part of the campaign to usher in Bush's New World Order. There's enough saccharine there to coat the tonsils of the chorus but it's obvious to me who they are and how they operate. James is just one of the ushers in the NWO theatre. That's his contribution.... fascinating theatre.

Sanat · 12-08-2008, 10:42 AM

milk and honey,

I do not disagree with your points. Who knows anyones true motives but themselves. But if his effort is to take away things that people identify with from the past, to "get them into the Now", then I see nothing wrong with that at all. It's a honorable effort in my opinion. But again, who am I to judge his efforts. That is simply just how I choose to percieve the interview until it is "proven otherwise". It's not hard to see that what he talks about has been talked about in the past. Truth is the same always, but as you say; it can only be realized in the Now, by letting go of the past.

Love and gratitude,

Sanat

Myplanet2 · 12-08-2008, 01:31 PM

rejecting something on the basis of whether it contradicts some "bought into" data set is equally as silly as accepting something because it agrees with some "bought into" data set.

My own filters flash on when I hear things like "you'll recognize it as false when it contradicts what I've said. (paraphrase of quotes purported to be from Jesus)

I can picture some scanning a thread or post with a key word search on "Jesus" to see if "he's" contradicted, and if so, then getting to work disgorging the HMS (and GSSC) borne justifications.

Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"?

Sanat · 12-08-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"?

Indeed, I agree. If all is indeed One, then there really is no need to oppose anything, as all "opposition" is based on duality perspective. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. From clarity one can see truth in everything that exists. From duality one sees only conflict between "this" and "that".

Love,

Sanat

milk and honey · 12-08-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

rejecting something on the basis of whether it contradicts some "bought into" data set is equally as silly as accepting something because it agrees with some "bought into" data set.

I know. Thats what i pointed out that the WMM material is doing with older concepts/words. Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myplanet

My own filters flash on when I hear things like "you'll recognize it as false when it contradicts what I've said. (paraphrase of quotes purported to be from Jesus)

I can picture some scanning a thread or post with a key word search on "Jesus" to see if "he's" contradicted, and if so, then getting to work disgorging the HMS (and GSSC) borne justifications.

Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"?

That's what i was asking.

What is at the root of the attempts of the WMM to discredit worthy concepts?

For my part, i pointed out an esoteric layer of what the older texts were revealing then compared and contrasted it with the WMM. James did a lot of comparing and contrasting himself in the interview. I outlined the demolition job that is evident to me in the WMM and explained what i see as the subtext underneath that.

That doesn't make me a 'HMS' "disgorger" or a fundamentalist christian for noticing what's there and writing it down on a discussion forum. If you're referring to me that is.

Ashatav · 12-08-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milk and honey

The truths that "James" includes in his work are taken from the spiritual teachings of the past. He has obviously read them and the countless commentaries on them. These concepts of truth which he simply re-packages with a few clinical terms of his own are not new or fresh. For thousands of years the spiritual adepts have been teaching that the individual soul (the intelligent fragment in matter of the spiritual- Self) is trapped in the dualistic polarities of the outer-ego (the carnal mind) and that this keeps souls trapped in the mass consciousness (the world) and ever mindless of the higher- Self.

Does that sound familiar? Just transcribe it with all "James" new words, and his own mis-representations and there it is, 'shiny new' "Wingmakers" to help us go "where no man has gone before."

The adepts have known Oneness intimately and taught the Way for ages:

"The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of Spirit personified) is within you".

"Seek and you will find (your real-Self within)" ...... "Knock and the (inner) door shall be opened (to conscious awareness)" --- Jesus the Christ.

Guatama also taught us to seek the light of Self- knowledge within. He called it Buddha Mind. The Buddha Self must 'cleanse' the dualistic lower-ego from the 'mental poisons' (false concepts) which keep the soul ignorant and stuck in 'worldliness' (the mass consciousness).

Does that sound familiar?

In Krishna's teachings, the same concepts appear .... "Krishna (the teacher) was the higher- Mind and Arjuna (the student) was the soul in matter. Again, the concept that the soul can awaken to spirit. See Krishna (the higher- Self) riding in his carriage with Arjuna. Krishna has a steady hand on the reigns of 4 horses (the 4 bodies of man ) all acting under the direction and superior intelligence of Krishna (the higher- Self).

In this scene the physical and subtle bodies (the 4 horses) have become obedient servants to the higher-Self because the dualistic egoic impulses have been inactivated and stilled. The soul - arjuna - is freed from the pull of the senses and the lower- ego (wild horses) and realises the joy of Oneness with Krishna who steers the horses with consummate ease. The adepts have all delivered the same basic message... Go within and realise the "kingdom", the "Buddha" and "Krishna-consciousness". Different words for the higher-Self..... same solution to the human condition.

Does that sound familiar too?

It should if you've been reading the WMM. But James prefers to play semantic games with the terms 'God, Spirit, Soul, atma' etc which the historically identifiable adepts used in their spiritual teachings. He believes that those concepts originated not in the higher- Mind of the adepts but in what he calls the "Human Mind System". Consequently, he believes they're just another historical deception.

But They're not. Everything James has written about the 'Sovereign Integral' is a carbon copy of the Spiritual-Self / God-consciousness / Buddha-Mind / Krishna- consciousness / Christ- consciousness /Atma / God / Spirit etc etc etc as taught by the historical adepts. Every one of those terms signify the HIGHER- SELF (ie the "brand new" "Sovereign Integral") and like James, the adepts have all taught that IT IS WITHIN OURSELVES NOT SEPARATE OR OUTSIDE OF OURSELVES as James seems to think they did. His failure to discern that, puts him at the level of understanding of a christan sunday school teacher. The other alternative is that he has constructed that straw man only to demolish it. But why?

Because it demolishes virtually every other source of spiritual information which we are likely ever to come across. His denials and dismissals are a weapon of mass destruction designed to set James personally and the WMM apart from virtually everything else in the field of spirituality and metaphysics. Pretty ambitious eh? Everything must be demolished including the US Constitution. The NWO is after all an inevitable step on the path to freedom is it not?

James seems just as confused about ascension, averring that somehow ascension was taught by the adepts as a belief - again the product of the "HMS" - in an external union with an external God source. They never taught that at all, as i've shown.

Jesus ascended. But James misrepresents the concept of ascension. Jesus' soul united with the Christ-consciousness and ascended to his highest Self - the I AM. (the 'Father'). He did not go to an external place. His soul rose to permanent union with his spiritual- Self. He ascended to a 'place' in consciousness.

I realise that James doesn't believe in the version of ascension which he dismisses but he must believe that the adepts share a similar delusion with those modern folk who believe ascension is something that will happen to them as a result of a wave of energy in 2012.

Somehow, after all his misunderstandings James + the WM acknowledge Jesus as a high Spiritual Helper of humanity. Many of the 'alien saviors' like to say that they share the stage with Jesus but i believe the pretense is purely for convenience to cast their nets as wide as possible. Urantia, Nesara, Galactic Federation, semjase group, and many others include him in their line-up and 'ride to earth' on his coat tails. One iron in the fire is Jesus' return to Eath don't forget. The possibilities are obvious.

We can rationalise James' denial of the enlightened adepts' teachings any way we please, yet that is where he got most of his own schpiel. If Jesus, Guatama and others had not realised Oneness with the true- Self they simply could not have concieved, nor expressed so elegantly, the concepts which reveal their self-mastery. All James has done is repackage them and their work without due acknowledgement and then proceeded to invalidate their concepts as merely an ignorant expression of the HMS.

There are several possible reasons why James' 'whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with" but only some are valid. One is "in the moment" to let go of false concepts that keep the soul's attention focussed in the lower- ego, so that one can experience direct awareness of the spiritual-Self. Another is "in the moment" to let go of all concepts of the outer-mind to experience that union with the higher-Self. Yet another reason "James" may be "taking things away that people identify with" is so that he can summarily dismiss the true adepts and their teachings and substitute his own agenda - and those who back him - in their place. That's a lot different to sharing the stage with them and representing their teachings truthfully.

So i wouldn't rush to impute a pure motive to James' WMM when so many obvious problems are evident.

My reading of "james" is that he/she is part of a sophisticated chorus of psy-operatives who are trying to sever this generation from the past. It is also evident to me, from other comments he makes and the stories he invents, that he is part of the campaign to usher in Bush's New World Order. There's enough saccharine there to coat the tonsils of the chorus but it's obvious to me who they are and how they operate. James is just one of the ushers in the NWO theatre. That's his contribution.... fascinating theatre.

Agree, it have to many flaws.

Why believe the first thing who comes from NOWHERE with our eyes closed because it smells nice???

The people believes anything these days who seems aceptable.

Thank you theosophy!

(hahaha in this forum if a person don't believe totally odd things is a strange, me included!)

Cheers!

day · 12-06-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthBowl

Thank you for your insights. Though I relatively NEW (9 months) to the Wingmakers material- it felt like home from the beginning of my interaction with it. This Camelot interview feels like an expansive new level of understanding/ experience for me. I do not understand all but I am approaching it with my Neutral heart and awaiting the revelation of Soverign Integral. I appreciate serious discussion.
In oneness, equality and truthfulness.

it too felt like home to me-- beautifully said!~

Ashatav · 12-06-2008, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolphin

Ashatav, you've raised some interesting arguments. i too had some nagging doubts when i read that part of wingmaker's. it would be interesting to have SANAT do a muscle test and calibrate it for it's veracity! having troulbe also w the art...i studied art history. the babylonians, sumerians, egyptians, ancient asian and mayan art is "high" art. why is wingmaker's art not of this caliber?

The art isn't a problem, a friend show the wingmakers pictures to a profesional artist and he say these art, the wingmaker art was Amateur and the music To because I and my friend where music composers, in fact, something like that music is Extremely easy to do is totally incoherent so for me Anybody can do it.

But head to the important part:

The thing is that the NWOs want to make a new religion and believe system mixing the luciferian doctrine disguised in teosophism who is the basis of a lot of things like the New Age movement and others doctrines like the contactees cases and the Ufo phenomenon (did you know that the planet X footage are a Jesuit footage??)

So we now are sons of aliens like the wingmakers and the Urantia book (and the wingmakers material have a Lot of the Urantia book) both are of Very doubtfull origin. In fact the Urantia book is an all Channeled book.

I asked Dr. Deagle and he says that is Totally Desinformation, the same say Jonathan Grey.

And if the urantia is desinformation the wingmakers Must be to because has a Lot of the urantia fairy world.

The thing that the beings the channelers contact are very, very intelligent so they come with things like those easily.

Why the ancient prohibited the contactism?

Cheers!

isotelesis · 12-06-2008, 07:24 AM

An interesting point made:

Each individual is a portal unto themselves, and this portal is the access point to the interdimensional worlds of the Sovereign Integral, where the human instrument, like a space suit, is finally removed and the individual realizes their true, infinite nature. And in this realization, understands that everyone – EVERYONE – is equal in this state, and in this equality we are ONE. The Grand Portal is when humanity stands-up as ONE BEING to this all-encompassing realization and then we transcend the suppression framework and express as Sovereigns...
The seeking of information is over. The seeking of a master, guru, religion, spiritual path, or way-shower is over. The seeking of objects of blame is over. The seeking of hidden information behind the dark forces is over. It is the expression of the Sovereign Integral consciousness and the deactivation of the suppression framework that becomes the focus of each individual in this new era.

There are some valuable messages in the material, although I wouldn't take it literally, we are probably on some type of progressive journey.

ENdJOY · 12-06-2008, 07:41 AM

oh ye of little faith

the music is another "tool" like the art, just as there are frequencies cause by the clashing primary colors in the art...there are tones (some inaudible) embedded in the music... and the CD were released in a progressive order that build upon each other like a ladder, stimulating "junk" DNA into activation.

you can believe it or not, but what's the harm in trying?

is "magic" really dead ?

Humble Janitor · 12-06-2008, 08:03 AM

Good interview. Just gives me more things to think about.

becky · 12-06-2008, 07:00 PM

Hi All-you-Me-same-different,

I am surprised to see so little response so far to the James interview. And the few responses here seem to lack much enthusiasm. I, for one, had been anxiously awaiting the release of this interview, since the wingmakers materials and James interviews have resonated so deeply with me. And I must say, this interview far exceeded my expectations. I am so grateful to James for expanding on the materials so directly and with such clarity. And I am so grateful to Kerry (and Bill!) for asking such pertinent and deliberate questions.

I, for one, at least in this moment, am done with my stacks of spiritual books. I take what James is saying as truth and more than just another myth. I take it as a vital layer of the onion--probably as much as we can collectively handle at this time--and I will be actively practicing the Quantum Pause/Moment as well as the six heart virtues.

I will keep you posted on my experiences and welcome any feedback from others who are doing the same!

But first another sip of

Much love to US,
Becky

11-21-2008, 11:40 AM	#1
wilsonericq7 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 50	Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Hello all, I love the story I am reading regarding the wingmakers. I am new to the site as of last week and have my filters on right now; if nothing else I am enjoying the read. I am puzzled, however, as this story appears as a source for research in some of these threads. As science is my trade I have the obvious traps and limitations when exploring outside possibilities/probabilities. My question, "Is this myth a vehichle for truth?" Your thoughts, Peace

11-24-2008, 09:38 AM	#2
Ashatav Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 603	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I stoped believing in the wingmakers material when I read in the second interview with Dr. Neruda that the Bush senior's New World Order is what they want to this world. Read it in the second interview! The people must know these kind of information about wingmakers. Cheerszoo!

11-24-2008, 10:37 AM	#3
wilsonericq7 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 50	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Thanks for the reply; however I am fuzzy on your request. Am I clear we are to read an interview with Dr. Neruda? Who did this interview?

11-24-2008, 10:46 AM	#4
Ashatav Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 603	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... hahah good question, I don't know but she seems to not know much about the subjet. She is like neutral in the interview. Cheers.

12-06-2008, 05:32 AM	#7
ENdJOY Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 129	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I'd like to try and shed some light on these two points you bring up. When the website first came out, the second half of the Fourth interview was not included...it goes into some detail explaining how the NWO would begin the process of unifing the world's populations and eventually bring about equality for all. While the PTB believe that they are doing one thing (gaining control and power) they are actually working for the Unification Force, tearing down the walls built up by the Heirarcy, Religion, Culture (nations), Science, and Politics...and he explained how any and all "change" requires chaos...even when you change the water in your fish tank, there is chaos...changing the world, will be far more chaotic. He also explained how the three seats of power were used to manipulate the masses into such a state of fear, that they would beg for chips, Nat ID cards, and a cashless society... those things were easily dismissed a decade ago...perhaps you should read the Interviews again As for the Art...it was not designed to represent a culture, it was designed to be a "tool". The vivid colors resonate where they touch each other...it was all done with tiny lazer-ed dots, that do not quite touch so that they could move about freely... try looking at them with zoom or a magnifying glass... or in a room with nothing on but the TV, and watch how they move, and invite you into their energy stream of other dimensional frequencies. Once you discern the purpose of the WM's materials, the tools (Art Music and Poetry) take on new meaning, and can be appreciated for their depth of genius...and one can hear the messages they silently convey. Last edited by ENdJOY; 12-06-2008 at 05:34 AM.

12-06-2008, 06:06 AM	#8
pilot Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: OK Posts: 153	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I just finished reading the interview with "James" Karry and Bill conducted and found it very interesting. The follow-up questions in the latter part of the dialog were ones that I found myself asking as I read it - specifically, how is what Wingmakers saying different from eastern philosophy and the stated goals of meditation in order to transcend the mind chatter and identification with material reality, the "prison" or matrix... the answer seemed to allude to the ancient teachings no longer being appropriate to our current technological advancement, and that what we all truly fear is stillness, nothingness that is the state of the sovereign integral. OK, one other point that James made several times is that it is counterproductive to get caught up in a mythology or master/student mindset, and I will buy that for sure. The most important thing he had to say in my view is the breathing method he called "quantum moment". All the rest is a story, a mythology, not necessary to the revealing of who I really am. The pictures are pretty, the story is interesting, but simple is key. Why not promote the breathing method and let each one discover the one true source without all the window dressing? To be honest, when I first saw the Wingmaker site a few years ago I thought, "wow, what a clever way to market those paintings!!" I don't have to believe anything about anything-the truth is in here.

12-06-2008, 03:56 PM	#9
EarthBowl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vermont Posts: 66	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Thank you for your insights. Though I relatively NEW (9 months) to the Wingmakers material- it felt like home from the beginning of my interaction with it. This Camelot interview feels like an expansive new level of understanding/ experience for me. I do not understand all but I am approaching it with my Neutral heart and awaiting the revelation of Soverign Integral. I appreciate serious discussion. In oneness, equality and truthfulness.

12-06-2008, 05:00 PM	#10
micjer Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ont. CANADA Posts: 1,043	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I did like his breathing exercise for meditation Last edited by micjer; 12-07-2008 at 05:46 PM.

12-06-2008, 06:03 PM	#11
dim Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... What baffles me the most all the time in all those materials is why those so called "advanced" beings like Anu suffer from power greediness or feel the need to create hordes of slaves to mine gold and such, makes me wonder what is so "advanced" to that , or how those "advanced" Atlantians take the bite and incarnate human bodies and stuff like that. All those things seem not "advanced" at all to me, it may be i don't know, it's just this type of "advancement" really scares me. Apart from that i am glad to see the bits and pieces of truth reaching Camelot even in the form of the wingmakers, truth, even hijacked or distorted, can make it to the heart and awaken the "void" or "silence" or "presence" within.

12-06-2008, 06:26 PM	#12
Sanat Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 413	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... His effort towards taking away all that which the "spiritual ego" clings to and make people realize that they are far from truth of the Self even if they are somewhat on the right track by moving into the "spiritual domain" is effective. And so is his analogy with the dark room. Socrates dedicated his whole life towards showing people how little they really know in proportions to what they "thought they knew", and thus giving them the opportunity admit to the lies they had lived on, and start the real and authentic search from a point of not-knowing. Reaching the point of not-knowing is the hardest part for most people, and also the essential first step in the authentic search for Truth. I feel his effort is along these lines, and therefore of high integrity. His "new/fresh" concepts and words serve this purpose also, and so does his "denial" that any known "figure" ever realized the true Self/Oneness. His whole effort is towards taking things away that many still cling to and identify with. Only by letting go of all such identifications can one get a taste of real Oneness which he calls the "Sovereign Integral". I really enjoyed the freshness of this interview as one of the better things Camelot has done lately. The Anu story is somewhat similar to what is only vaguely hinted upon in the Handbooks from George Green. His "quantum breath" method etc. is a very good method for getting glimpses of the state of no-mind and of learning to always come back to the present here and now. Training the mind to not run into past/future "dreams" all the time. There is a saying in the east (at least I have heard it somewhere) that if you can sit still with closed eyes and remain totally present for just 5 full minutes you have realized the Self. If you "forget yourself" in a daydream for as little as just a second you must start all over again. Trying this is a great way to feel how strong the mind-prison really is. And it can also be humbling and a tell-tale sign of where one really is along the Scale (this test is also independent of "knowledge" just like the quantum breath method). Rather strange that we should not be able to control our own mind and instead it controls us, is it not? Like a dog walking its owner and not the other way around.... That being said: Even a small glimpse of clairty is enough to tell us which direction to move towards. Without such a glimpse we are all fumbling around in the dark room no matter how much "knowledge" we think we have gathered. That accumulated "knowledge" is, in fact, the very darkness that prevent us from seeing clearly.

12-07-2008, 12:23 PM	#13
milk and honey Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 222	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... I'll put it back when i've edited it Last edited by milk and honey; 12-07-2008 at 12:31 PM.

12-08-2008, 10:42 AM	#15
Sanat Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 413	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... milk and honey, I do not disagree with your points. Who knows anyones true motives but themselves. But if his effort is to take away things that people identify with from the past, to "get them into the Now", then I see nothing wrong with that at all. It's a honorable effort in my opinion. But again, who am I to judge his efforts. That is simply just how I choose to percieve the interview until it is "proven otherwise". It's not hard to see that what he talks about has been talked about in the past. Truth is the same always, but as you say; it can only be realized in the Now, by letting go of the past. Love and gratitude, Sanat

12-08-2008, 01:31 PM	#16
Myplanet2 In The Mists Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,133	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... rejecting something on the basis of whether it contradicts some "bought into" data set is equally as silly as accepting something because it agrees with some "bought into" data set. My own filters flash on when I hear things like "you'll recognize it as false when it contradicts what I've said. (paraphrase of quotes purported to be from Jesus) I can picture some scanning a thread or post with a key word search on "Jesus" to see if "he's" contradicted, and if so, then getting to work disgorging the HMS (and GSSC) borne justifications. Where does that compulsion to discredit originate? That's what I'd be asking. Not "how can I discredit this in his holy name"? Last edited by Myplanet2; 12-08-2008 at 01:48 PM.

12-06-2008, 07:24 AM	#22
isotelesis Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 112	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... An interesting point made: Each individual is a portal unto themselves, and this portal is the access point to the interdimensional worlds of the Sovereign Integral, where the human instrument, like a space suit, is finally removed and the individual realizes their true, infinite nature. And in this realization, understands that everyone – EVERYONE – is equal in this state, and in this equality we are ONE. The Grand Portal is when humanity stands-up as ONE BEING to this all-encompassing realization and then we transcend the suppression framework and express as Sovereigns... The seeking of information is over. The seeking of a master, guru, religion, spiritual path, or way-shower is over. The seeking of objects of blame is over. The seeking of hidden information behind the dark forces is over. It is the expression of the Sovereign Integral consciousness and the deactivation of the suppression framework that becomes the focus of each individual in this new era. There are some valuable messages in the material, although I wouldn't take it literally, we are probably on some type of progressive journey.

12-06-2008, 07:41 AM	#23
ENdJOY Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 129	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... oh ye of little faith the music is another "tool" like the art, just as there are frequencies cause by the clashing primary colors in the art...there are tones (some inaudible) embedded in the music... and the CD were released in a progressive order that build upon each other like a ladder, stimulating "junk" DNA into activation. you can believe it or not, but what's the harm in trying? is "magic" really dead ?

12-06-2008, 08:03 AM	#24
Humble Janitor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,201	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Good interview. Just gives me more things to think about.

12-06-2008, 07:00 PM	#25
becky Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: southern california Posts: 28	Re: Wingmakers: Fact, Fiction, or Good Story with some truth... Hi All-you-Me-same-different, I am surprised to see so little response so far to the James interview. And the few responses here seem to lack much enthusiasm. I, for one, had been anxiously awaiting the release of this interview, since the wingmakers materials and James interviews have resonated so deeply with me. And I must say, this interview far exceeded my expectations. I am so grateful to James for expanding on the materials so directly and with such clarity. And I am so grateful to Kerry (and Bill!) for asking such pertinent and deliberate questions. I, for one, at least in this moment, am done with my stacks of spiritual books. I take what James is saying as truth and more than just another myth. I take it as a vital layer of the onion--probably as much as we can collectively handle at this time--and I will be actively practicing the Quantum Pause/Moment as well as the six heart virtues. I will keep you posted on my experiences and welcome any feedback from others who are doing the same! But first another sip of Much love to US, Becky