How people become Monsters or Heroes

henners · 12-19-2008, 12:27 AM

Hello all. Just saw this video on CMN and i thought it was inspiring for all of us. It was made by a guy called Philip Zimbardo . This is a brief explanation of what its about.

"Philip Zimbardo shows how people become monsters ... or heroes

Philip Zimbardo knows how easy it is for nice people to turn bad. In this talk, he shares insights and graphic unseen photos from the Abu Ghraib trials. Then he talks about the flip side: how easy it is to be a hero, and how we can rise to the challenge.

Philip Zimbardo knows what evil looks like. After serving as an expert witness during the Abu Ghraib trials, he wrote The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil. From Nazi comic books to the tactics of used-car salesmen, he explores a wealth of sources in trying to explain the psychology of evil.

A past president of the American Psychological Association and a professor emeritus at Stanford, Zimbardo retired in 2008 from lecturing, after 50 years of teaching his legendary introductory course in psychology. In addition to his work on evil and heroism, Zimbardo recently published The Time Paradox, exploring different cultural and personal perspectives on time.

Still well-known for his controversial Stanford Prison Experiment, Zimbardo in his new research looks at the psychology of heroism. He asks, "What pushes some people to become perpetrators of evil, while others act heroically on behalf of those in need?"

This is the link. Its about 23 minutes long. And makes a lot of sense.

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/video/121808.htm

I feel it resonates with many at the top. Its all about power.

burgundia · 12-19-2008, 11:32 AM

A very important video, a must see for everybody. Thank you.

Carmen · 12-20-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners

Hello all. Just saw this video on CMN and i thought it was inspiring for all of us. It was made by a guy called Philip Zimbardo . This is a brief explanation of what its about.

"Philip Zimbardo shows how people become monsters ... or heroes

Philip Zimbardo knows how easy it is for nice people to turn bad. In this talk, he shares insights and graphic unseen photos from the Abu Ghraib trials. Then he talks about the flip side: how easy it is to be a hero, and how we can rise to the challenge.

Philip Zimbardo knows what evil looks like. After serving as an expert witness during the Abu Ghraib trials, he wrote The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil. From Nazi comic books to the tactics of used-car salesmen, he explores a wealth of sources in trying to explain the psychology of evil.

A past president of the American Psychological Association and a professor emeritus at Stanford, Zimbardo retired in 2008 from lecturing, after 50 years of teaching his legendary introductory course in psychology. In addition to his work on evil and heroism, Zimbardo recently published The Time Paradox, exploring different cultural and personal perspectives on time.

Still well-known for his controversial Stanford Prison Experiment, Zimbardo in his new research looks at the psychology of heroism. He asks, "What pushes some people to become perpetrators of evil, while others act heroically on behalf of those in need?"

This is the link. Its about 23 minutes long. And makes a lot of sense.

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/video/121808.htm

I feel it resonates with many at the top. Its all about power.

Wow Henners, That is an important video. Everyone should watch it. It stopped half way through but I got the gist of it. The question of how anyone would react/respond in certain circumstances I have asked myself many times. There seems to be a fine line of choice and people can obviously be steered in any direction the power brokers choose. The hero obviously chooses in the moment to act with compassion, courage. Also those who are filled with the presence of their God Within, (in sufficient measure) would always choose the hero path. I guess thats where, "There, but for the Grace of God, go I" comes from?

henners · 12-20-2008, 06:07 AM

Thanks for the comments. I hope more people are watching it . It certainly has a message.

Humble Janitor · 12-20-2008, 06:38 AM

I believe that in reality, there are no monsters or heroes.

We as humans, tend to elevate or knock down others with those labels.

If you cannot find humanity in even the biggest criminals in history, then you cannot find humanity at all.

12-20-2008, 06:48 AM

I think we are all both monsters and heroes, angels and
devils, at the same time. Genocide and philanthropy lurk
in us all. What you see out there is but a reflection of an
aspect of yourself.

Luminari · 12-20-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

What you see out there is but a reflection of an
aspect of yourself.

I agree

dayzero · 12-20-2008, 02:59 PM

"I think"....that I'll watch this video before posting!

I heard a long radio show with this chap a while back, I'm sure this vid will be
very interesting indeed.

If not, I'll let you know lol!

ps, [and clearly breaking my promise above],
that it's our 'allowance' whether we 'let' the dark side 'stand' unchallenged.
however, there are more and more who exercise their right to 'challenge'.
Come on in, the water's warm!

stiros · 12-22-2008, 12:04 AM

Hello everyone,
Thank you henners for the video.
I have heard about these experiments before.
Anyhow, I think there is good in people, if they want to develop in that direction.
Personally I think we have to many “psychopathic characters” with a need to control others in our “hierarchic social system”.
I think, if we take away the “hierarchic system”, much of the problem will disappear, because people with a need to control, will advance upwards in this “hierarchic system”.
They use fear to rule others. We can change this if we want.

I like the so called “three pillar model of a society”.
The different pillars are:
1.“Scientific/Technological (level)”
2.“Interindividual/Social (level)”
3.“Individual (level)”
To become heroes (instead of monsters) is a typical “Individual” pillar training.
It is obvious for everybody, that we have get some training in this issue, to make us conscious about this “human problem”.
I think it also is very important, that in an early stage of an “situation”, to be brave and direct the “events”, to take a good path, by immediate actions.
This will perhaps “bias towards heroes”, instead of doing nothing and perhaps “bias towards monsters”.
Just speculations.
Personally I think it is important to get rid of our own “fears”, i.e. to be conscious about what is causing our fears.
As a help to find out where we stand in this matter, we could use the “emotional scale” by Esther and Jerry Hicks in the book “Ask and it is Given”.
It's like following and I like this too:
1.Joy/Knowledge/Empowerment/Freedom/Love/Appreciation
2.Passion
3.Enthusiasm
4.Positive Expectation/Belief
5.Optimism
6.Hopefulness
7.Contentment
8.Boredom
9.Pessimism
10.Frustration/Irritation/Impatience
11.“Overwhelment”
12.Disappointment
13.Doubt
14.Worry
15.Blame
16.Discouragement
17.Anger
18.Revenge
19.Hatred/Rage
20.Jealousy
21.Insecurity/Guilt/Unworthyness
22.Fear/Grief/Depression/Despair/Powerlessness
The purpose is to reach up to low number on this “development scale”.
As I understand it is usually only possible to take small steps at a time on this scale.
Often to become conscious about a problem on the scale, will also “resolve it”.
It is more difficult in fact to climb on this ladder, than it looks like.
For example, if you get rid of “Anger”, which perhaps has been a “driving force” in the life, it is important to replace that “driving force” with for example love (philia and agape) instead, or you maybe you will end up with a life, that seems to be meaningless and that is not good at all, as I see it.
We are all friends and we have to help each other in this matter.
Comments appreciated

love, freedom and truth
stiros

Czymra · 12-25-2008, 12:47 PM

I'd ask you to join another thread but I'll ask the question here instead:

Why do we justify our 'positive side'. Are the 'bad guys' really unaware of the abuse, is it not good intention gone wrong? And are the PTB thus really evil or do they just do as they do in the believe that it's for 'the better of the world'... ?

If you are up for joining the other thread it's here:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?p=97787

12-19-2008, 12:27 AM	#1
henners Project Avalon Researcher Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 432	How people become Monsters or Heroes Hello all. Just saw this video on CMN and i thought it was inspiring for all of us. It was made by a guy called Philip Zimbardo . This is a brief explanation of what its about. "Philip Zimbardo shows how people become monsters ... or heroes Philip Zimbardo knows how easy it is for nice people to turn bad. In this talk, he shares insights and graphic unseen photos from the Abu Ghraib trials. Then he talks about the flip side: how easy it is to be a hero, and how we can rise to the challenge. Philip Zimbardo knows what evil looks like. After serving as an expert witness during the Abu Ghraib trials, he wrote The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil. From Nazi comic books to the tactics of used-car salesmen, he explores a wealth of sources in trying to explain the psychology of evil. A past president of the American Psychological Association and a professor emeritus at Stanford, Zimbardo retired in 2008 from lecturing, after 50 years of teaching his legendary introductory course in psychology. In addition to his work on evil and heroism, Zimbardo recently published The Time Paradox, exploring different cultural and personal perspectives on time. Still well-known for his controversial Stanford Prison Experiment, Zimbardo in his new research looks at the psychology of heroism. He asks, "What pushes some people to become perpetrators of evil, while others act heroically on behalf of those in need?" This is the link. Its about 23 minutes long. And makes a lot of sense. http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/video/121808.htm I feel it resonates with many at the top. Its all about power. __________________ Henners Thoughts are boomerangs, returning with precision to their source. Choose wisely which ones you throw.

12-19-2008, 11:32 AM	#2
burgundia Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 3,442	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes A very important video, a must see for everybody. Thank you.

12-20-2008, 06:07 AM	#4
henners Project Avalon Researcher Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 432	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes Thanks for the comments. I hope more people are watching it . It certainly has a message. __________________ Henners Thoughts are boomerangs, returning with precision to their source. Choose wisely which ones you throw.

12-20-2008, 06:38 AM	#5
Humble Janitor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,201	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes I believe that in reality, there are no monsters or heroes. We as humans, tend to elevate or knock down others with those labels. If you cannot find humanity in even the biggest criminals in history, then you cannot find humanity at all.

12-20-2008, 06:48 AM	#6
Baggywrinkle Guest Posts: n/a	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes I think we are all both monsters and heroes, angels and devils, at the same time. Genocide and philanthropy lurk in us all. What you see out there is but a reflection of an aspect of yourself.

12-20-2008, 02:59 PM	#8
dayzero Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern England Posts: 458	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes "I think"....that I'll watch this video before posting! I heard a long radio show with this chap a while back, I'm sure this vid will be very interesting indeed. If not, I'll let you know lol! ps, [and clearly breaking my promise above], that it's our 'allowance' whether we 'let' the dark side 'stand' unchallenged. however, there are more and more who exercise their right to 'challenge'. Come on in, the water's warm!

12-22-2008, 12:04 AM	#9
stiros Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 159	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes Hello everyone, Thank you henners for the video. I have heard about these experiments before. Anyhow, I think there is good in people, if they want to develop in that direction. Personally I think we have to many “psychopathic characters” with a need to control others in our “hierarchic social system”. I think, if we take away the “hierarchic system”, much of the problem will disappear, because people with a need to control, will advance upwards in this “hierarchic system”. They use fear to rule others. We can change this if we want. I like the so called “three pillar model of a society”. The different pillars are: 1.“Scientific/Technological (level)” 2.“Interindividual/Social (level)” 3.“Individual (level)” To become heroes (instead of monsters) is a typical “Individual” pillar training. It is obvious for everybody, that we have get some training in this issue, to make us conscious about this “human problem”. I think it also is very important, that in an early stage of an “situation”, to be brave and direct the “events”, to take a good path, by immediate actions. This will perhaps “bias towards heroes”, instead of doing nothing and perhaps “bias towards monsters”. Just speculations. Personally I think it is important to get rid of our own “fears”, i.e. to be conscious about what is causing our fears. As a help to find out where we stand in this matter, we could use the “emotional scale” by Esther and Jerry Hicks in the book “Ask and it is Given”. It's like following and I like this too: 1.Joy/Knowledge/Empowerment/Freedom/Love/Appreciation 2.Passion 3.Enthusiasm 4.Positive Expectation/Belief 5.Optimism 6.Hopefulness 7.Contentment 8.Boredom 9.Pessimism 10.Frustration/Irritation/Impatience 11.“Overwhelment” 12.Disappointment 13.Doubt 14.Worry 15.Blame 16.Discouragement 17.Anger 18.Revenge 19.Hatred/Rage 20.Jealousy 21.Insecurity/Guilt/Unworthyness 22.Fear/Grief/Depression/Despair/Powerlessness The purpose is to reach up to low number on this “development scale”. As I understand it is usually only possible to take small steps at a time on this scale. Often to become conscious about a problem on the scale, will also “resolve it”. It is more difficult in fact to climb on this ladder, than it looks like. For example, if you get rid of “Anger”, which perhaps has been a “driving force” in the life, it is important to replace that “driving force” with for example love (philia and agape) instead, or you maybe you will end up with a life, that seems to be meaningless and that is not good at all, as I see it. We are all friends and we have to help each other in this matter. Comments appreciated love, freedom and truth stiros Last edited by stiros; 12-22-2008 at 12:06 AM.

12-25-2008, 12:47 PM	#10
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: How people become Monsters or Heroes I'd ask you to join another thread but I'll ask the question here instead: Why do we justify our 'positive side'. Are the 'bad guys' really unaware of the abuse, is it not good intention gone wrong? And are the PTB thus really evil or do they just do as they do in the believe that it's for 'the better of the world'... ? If you are up for joining the other thread it's here: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?p=97787