12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World

ramallamamama · 10-19-2008, 06:12 PM

Greetings,

I've been in recovery for awhile and have no problem 'coming out' as it is, as I may be able to help someone here in the community having problems with substances, etc. I'm no prude, I'm all for others getting high, I just don't have that option anymore.

Anyhow, the focus of this post is if/when the world *really* goes to pot, where will people go to help others that want to stay clean and sober. The cornerstone of 12 steps programs is if you want to keep it you must give it away and that has been my experience.

Maybe I'm thinking about this too much. Everything has always been provided to me that I need. I have had the foresight to prepare for the future of myself and family, hell the fact that I'm alive today is a testament to a higher personal purpose. Or not.

Most people mock me at meetings. I warned of an impending financial crisis
to friends at meetings and suggested they get out of paper assets. Many have lost a huge chunk of their life savings. I'm still the 'tinfoil hatter' that when food gets tough to get can be counted on for a free lunch. I saved on my own dime about 100lbs of rice that I will freely distribute to those in need. After that the 'bakery' will be closed. I have gently said as much. Does anyone I know go out and stock up on any food, tools, ammo, etc., acquire new skills? No.

I have also learned that I have to guard my sobriety selfishly. If I don't maintain that I will not have doo doo. I'm there to help anyone in need up to the point that they are willing to help themselves.

I suspect many people will relapse. Like the roving packs of feral pet dogs, insane addicts will be plundering until there are no more hard drugs like alcohol and the likes of which will be stolen from pharmacies. Then only pot will be left and anyone with white chocolate macadamia nut cookies in their preps beware! Had to add some humor, this is topic is a dark concern for me.

Thoughts/feedback welcome.

Aloha

deb003 · 10-19-2008, 06:21 PM

Hello Rama.
Thank you for your post.
I too am a recovering addict and I have to try to balance all this new information I am getting and keeping spiritually fit.
At some times, I can get into the fear, and it was trying to run away from the fear that I found ways to act out. When ever the fear pops up again, I just remind myself about a HP. I too have bought allot of food and other goods and when I mention this to anyone, they minimize it, make fun of me or just ignore it, which sometimes makes me isolate and I feel alone which can also be a trigger, which is why it's so wonderful to have found this forum and i feel the support of other people who know what's going on behind the scenes.
I too think of addictions and how chaotic it will get if things get out of control in the financial system.
I am here also to help and share and relate. We need to help each other.
Thanks again for your post!

ramallamamama · 10-19-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deb003

Hello Rama.
Thank you for your post.
I too am a recovering addict and I have to try to balance all this new information I am getting and keeping spiritually fit.
At some times, I can get into the fear, and it was trying to run away from the fear that I found ways to act out. When ever the fear pops up again, I just remind myself about a HP. I too have bought allot of food and other goods and when I mention this to anyone, they minimize it, make fun of me or just ignore it, which sometimes makes me isolate and I feel alone which can also be a trigger, which is why it's so wonderful to have found this forum and i feel the support of other people who know what's going on behind the scenes.
I too think of addictions and how chaotic it will get if things get out of control in the financial system.
I am here also to help and share and relate. We need to help each other.
Thanks again for your post!

Hi deb003,

I understand about those that don't listen making me feel like 'screw them'
but then I meditate on it and talk to my sponsor. (he's more Wilcoxian than Deagle-ish) I then put on my smiling face and head back to meetings to share my experience strength and hope with a good pitch and be there for newcomers. At the pre and post meeting-meetings I blast anyone that'll listen with the latest 'If I read it on the Internet it must be true' info, we have a good laugh and I go home and work on my preps.

Aloha

freekatz · 10-19-2008, 07:18 PM

Thanks for this post, I am also a recovering addict (thanks to meditation, therapy and lots of hard work). I've actually found that whenever I feel myself veering off track just focusing on what is going on in the world and the importance of holding things together in order to help others is a great incentive.

Glad to know there are fellow "recoverers" on the forum.

Peace.

ramallamamama · 10-19-2008, 09:14 PM

bump

ramallamamama · 10-19-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekatz

Thanks for this post, I am also a recovering addict (thanks to meditation, therapy and lots of hard work). I've actually found that whenever I feel myself veering off track just focusing on what is going on in the world and the importance of holding things together in order to help others is a great incentive.

Glad to know there are fellow "recoverers" on the forum.

Peace.

You are welcome. Totally agree about helping others.

We of the perception that people that leave unfinished cocktails at restaurants are disrespecting others who can't finish them have unique issues. I know I do anyway. Still crazy after all these years...

Circlewerk · 10-19-2008, 10:52 PM

The best advice man can give to man, is to discourage him from believing his thoughts are real.
Relapse happens when a person labeled "alcoholic" or "addict" allows the thoughts of drinking & using in repetition, to be focused on in his mind long enough that they cause emotion that in turn, if taken literally, become an action.

As if the thoughts were real, or his own, in the first place.
They are not.
And man always has a choice. There is no power greater than him, as the program suggests.
That dis-empowering notion has already caused many to relapse.
Relying on a higher power is the first thought that has to go.
Take full responsibility, and detach from thoughts.
Sobriety is yours if you make the decision that it is.

Halloween, I will celebrate 25 years, and the program is not a part of my life.
Although it was for the first 19 years.
Until I realized I was being dis-empowered with repetitive thoughts & belief systems, that however well motivated, no longer held true, for me.

With energy~
CW

freekatz · 10-20-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramallamamama

You are welcome. Totally agree about helping others.

We of the perception that people that leave unfinished cocktails at restaurants are disrespecting others who can't finish them have unique issues. I know I do anyway. Still crazy after all these years...

That's so cool....All my life I thought I was the only person who would get uptight about unfinished cocktails

pilot · 10-20-2008, 12:17 AM

Hi I'm Pilot and I'm an alcoholic, oddly enough at what I think is hopefully the tail end if a relapse. Glad to see this discussion, wow! Thanks OP.

I started to get turned off by the program and let my nit-pickery about it allow me to rationalize my way out of it and back to using eventually. That was 9 months ago that I "went out" officially.

I felt guilty for not making as many meetings as I felt I "should" and then said No way-this is as bad as religion. Eff the guilt...that's the false turn I made.

Nothing supernatural about it, this is what they said would happen. It happened. I want to go back and get what I need and give back. The greatest gift you can give is your truth in that context, how nice such a thing exists for us. The only time I really felt like I was on the narrow path was when I did service.

I still have misgivings about any orthodoxy when it come to my spiritual path, but there is no reason not to include AA among other things. Service to others is what it's all about right?

10-20-2008, 12:18 AM

good stuff, addictions are hard to beat. You have my respect!

I quit smoking, and that was extremely difficult for me. Couldnt imagine trying to kick something that was harder. Twelve Step programs save millions of people, while saving everyone millions.

deb003 · 10-20-2008, 12:26 AM

Aloha Rama!
I have a very good friend who's also recovering. She moved to Hawaii and LOVES it!! she says she will never leave!

I think for everyone it's a different experience. What I learned in 12 step is Live and Let live.
It works for some, maybe another type of program works for others.
Keeping an open mind and tolerance is what's key for me. I gotta practice practice practice and let go.

Love to you all!

master yowe · 10-20-2008, 01:41 AM

Hi everyone i'm Peter and i'm an alcoholic , i bet you've heard that before

Anyway i've been sober now for 13 years and i'm so gratefull to my higher power and the people in my 12 step program.

It has given me tools to cope with life on lifes terms , if or when the poop hits the fan i know i will be able to handle it.
The advice i can give anyone is that don't allow the fear to take over your life.

Remember the HP is in control and please do not seperate from one another , i mean stay close to your loved ones
and your fellowship members.

Great to see other 12 steppers on this site in my mind the most honest down to earth people on the planet.

ONE DAY AT A TIME BROTHERS AND SISTERS i love you all.

LIGHT AND COSMIC CHRIST LIGHT TO ALL

ramallamamama · 10-20-2008, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deb003

Aloha Rama!
I have a very good friend who's also recovering. She moved to Hawaii and LOVES it!! she says she will never leave!

I think for everyone it's a different experience. What I learned in 12 step is Live and Let live.
It works for some, maybe another type of program works for others.
Keeping an open mind and tolerance is what's key for me. I gotta practice practice practice and let go.

Love to you all!

Hi deb003,

I have learned many things in the program too. The most important being how to get along with people, how to be a good friend, a good son, a good boyfriend, a good employee (slave), learned integrity, compassion, justice,...

Oh and I didn't drink or use today!

Aloha

ramallamamama · 10-20-2008, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by master yowe

Hi everyone i'm Peter and i'm an alcoholic , i bet you've heard that before

Anyway i've been sober now for 13 years and i'm so gratefull to my higher power and the people in my 12 step program.

It has given me tools to cope with life on lifes terms , if or when the poop hits the fan i know i will be able to handle it.
The advice i can give anyone is that don't allow the fear to take over your life.

Remember the HP is in control and please do not seperate from one another , i mean stay close to your loved ones
and your fellowship members.

Great to see other 12 steppers on this site in my mind the most honest down to earth people on the planet.

ONE DAY AT A TIME BROTHERS AND SISTERS i love you all.

LIGHT AND COSMIC CHRIST LIGHT TO ALL

Aloha,

I agree about the fear. After being through a solid 5th and 6th recently I came to understand that *everything is going to be OK*... definitely interesting and a little scary maybe, hell it can't be any worse than stuff I've already been through. Well, maybe it can. I don't lose sleep over it though.

BRING IT ON YOU NWO BIATCHES!

master yowe · 10-21-2008, 01:47 AM

Good morning you beautiful 12 steppers how are you all ? Good i hope, this is
just a message to you guys to ask to spread the love to yourself and to other people around you.

Plus i want to get something of my chest , call this an on line meeting if you
like.

So here goes : To all you NWO , ILLUMINATI , NEGATIVE ET'S, BLACK OP
PEOPLE . Whatever nasty evil things you have done i forgive you and i love
you . You see you are closed off to the light ,were i can see the light,
The only reason i can see , feel and live in the light is because i've lived
in the darkness. And in a way i know how you feel.

Let me say one thing to you lost people is that , if i can return to to
the light then there is hope for you.

Remember the HIGHER POWER loves you just as much as he loves me.
And also remember you may think your in control but you are not,
nor am i. I also refuse to hate you for what you have done , that would
make me suffer , and i have suffered enough in this life time. Put it this
way i deserve better. And so do you,

LOVE AND COSMIC CHRIST LIGHT TO YOU ALL

10-19-2008, 06:12 PM	#1
ramallamamama Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Maui, Hawaii USA Posts: 74	12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Greetings, I've been in recovery for awhile and have no problem 'coming out' as it is, as I may be able to help someone here in the community having problems with substances, etc. I'm no prude, I'm all for others getting high, I just don't have that option anymore. Anyhow, the focus of this post is if/when the world really goes to pot, where will people go to help others that want to stay clean and sober. The cornerstone of 12 steps programs is if you want to keep it you must give it away and that has been my experience. Maybe I'm thinking about this too much. Everything has always been provided to me that I need. I have had the foresight to prepare for the future of myself and family, hell the fact that I'm alive today is a testament to a higher personal purpose. Or not. Most people mock me at meetings. I warned of an impending financial crisis to friends at meetings and suggested they get out of paper assets. Many have lost a huge chunk of their life savings. I'm still the 'tinfoil hatter' that when food gets tough to get can be counted on for a free lunch. I saved on my own dime about 100lbs of rice that I will freely distribute to those in need. After that the 'bakery' will be closed. I have gently said as much. Does anyone I know go out and stock up on any food, tools, ammo, etc., acquire new skills? No. I have also learned that I have to guard my sobriety selfishly. If I don't maintain that I will not have doo doo. I'm there to help anyone in need up to the point that they are willing to help themselves. I suspect many people will relapse. Like the roving packs of feral pet dogs, insane addicts will be plundering until there are no more hard drugs like alcohol and the likes of which will be stolen from pharmacies. Then only pot will be left and anyone with white chocolate macadamia nut cookies in their preps beware! Had to add some humor, this is topic is a dark concern for me. Thoughts/feedback welcome. Aloha

10-19-2008, 06:21 PM	#2
deb003 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 297	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Hello Rama. Thank you for your post. I too am a recovering addict and I have to try to balance all this new information I am getting and keeping spiritually fit. At some times, I can get into the fear, and it was trying to run away from the fear that I found ways to act out. When ever the fear pops up again, I just remind myself about a HP. I too have bought allot of food and other goods and when I mention this to anyone, they minimize it, make fun of me or just ignore it, which sometimes makes me isolate and I feel alone which can also be a trigger, which is why it's so wonderful to have found this forum and i feel the support of other people who know what's going on behind the scenes. I too think of addictions and how chaotic it will get if things get out of control in the financial system. I am here also to help and share and relate. We need to help each other. Thanks again for your post!

10-19-2008, 07:18 PM	#4
freekatz Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 155	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Thanks for this post, I am also a recovering addict (thanks to meditation, therapy and lots of hard work). I've actually found that whenever I feel myself veering off track just focusing on what is going on in the world and the importance of holding things together in order to help others is a great incentive. Glad to know there are fellow "recoverers" on the forum. Peace.

10-19-2008, 09:14 PM	#5
ramallamamama Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Maui, Hawaii USA Posts: 74	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World bump

10-19-2008, 10:52 PM	#7
Circlewerk Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: So.Cal Posts: 156	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World The best advice man can give to man, is to discourage him from believing his thoughts are real. Relapse happens when a person labeled "alcoholic" or "addict" allows the thoughts of drinking & using in repetition, to be focused on in his mind long enough that they cause emotion that in turn, if taken literally, become an action. As if the thoughts were real, or his own, in the first place. They are not. And man always has a choice. There is no power greater than him, as the program suggests. That dis-empowering notion has already caused many to relapse. Relying on a higher power is the first thought that has to go. Take full responsibility, and detach from thoughts. Sobriety is yours if you make the decision that it is. Halloween, I will celebrate 25 years, and the program is not a part of my life. Although it was for the first 19 years. Until I realized I was being dis-empowered with repetitive thoughts & belief systems, that however well motivated, no longer held true, for me. With energy~ CW

10-20-2008, 12:17 AM	#9
pilot Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: OK Posts: 153	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Hi I'm Pilot and I'm an alcoholic, oddly enough at what I think is hopefully the tail end if a relapse. Glad to see this discussion, wow! Thanks OP. I started to get turned off by the program and let my nit-pickery about it allow me to rationalize my way out of it and back to using eventually. That was 9 months ago that I "went out" officially. I felt guilty for not making as many meetings as I felt I "should" and then said No way-this is as bad as religion. Eff the guilt...that's the false turn I made. Nothing supernatural about it, this is what they said would happen. It happened. I want to go back and get what I need and give back. The greatest gift you can give is your truth in that context, how nice such a thing exists for us. The only time I really felt like I was on the narrow path was when I did service. I still have misgivings about any orthodoxy when it come to my spiritual path, but there is no reason not to include AA among other things. Service to others is what it's all about right?

10-20-2008, 12:18 AM	#10
OceanWinds Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World good stuff, addictions are hard to beat. You have my respect! I quit smoking, and that was extremely difficult for me. Couldnt imagine trying to kick something that was harder. Twelve Step programs save millions of people, while saving everyone millions.

10-20-2008, 12:26 AM	#11
deb003 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 297	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Aloha Rama! I have a very good friend who's also recovering. She moved to Hawaii and LOVES it!! she says she will never leave! I think for everyone it's a different experience. What I learned in 12 step is Live and Let live. It works for some, maybe another type of program works for others. Keeping an open mind and tolerance is what's key for me. I gotta practice practice practice and let go. Love to you all!

10-20-2008, 01:41 AM	#12
master yowe Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 45	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Hi everyone i'm Peter and i'm an alcoholic , i bet you've heard that before Anyway i've been sober now for 13 years and i'm so gratefull to my higher power and the people in my 12 step program. It has given me tools to cope with life on lifes terms , if or when the poop hits the fan i know i will be able to handle it. The advice i can give anyone is that don't allow the fear to take over your life. Remember the HP is in control and please do not seperate from one another , i mean stay close to your loved ones and your fellowship members. Great to see other 12 steppers on this site in my mind the most honest down to earth people on the planet. ONE DAY AT A TIME BROTHERS AND SISTERS i love you all. LIGHT AND COSMIC CHRIST LIGHT TO ALL Last edited by master yowe; 10-20-2008 at 01:50 AM.

10-21-2008, 01:47 AM	#15
master yowe Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 45	Re: 12 Step Recovery in Post Collapse World Good morning you beautiful 12 steppers how are you all ? Good i hope, this is just a message to you guys to ask to spread the love to yourself and to other people around you. Plus i want to get something of my chest , call this an on line meeting if you like. So here goes : To all you NWO , ILLUMINATI , NEGATIVE ET'S, BLACK OP PEOPLE . Whatever nasty evil things you have done i forgive you and i love you . You see you are closed off to the light ,were i can see the light, The only reason i can see , feel and live in the light is because i've lived in the darkness. And in a way i know how you feel. Let me say one thing to you lost people is that , if i can return to to the light then there is hope for you. Remember the HIGHER POWER loves you just as much as he loves me. And also remember you may think your in control but you are not, nor am i. I also refuse to hate you for what you have done , that would make me suffer , and i have suffered enough in this life time. Put it this way i deserve better. And so do you, LOVE AND COSMIC CHRIST LIGHT TO YOU ALL