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Originally Posted by whitecrow
You could open a real can o' worms with this one! I'll be interested in what folks have to say on this.
I've never been entirely comfortable with the term ascension. I like both "shift" and "quickening" better. Ascension is something that happened to Elijah, Jesus, Bahá'u'lláh.
I'm also not comfortable with the scriptural basis of the so-called rapture. It's based of a couple of snippets of scripture that to my mind don't really support the common form of the idea. But the question you ask has occurred to me, too.
It could be that events on earth will cause the "death" of millions of people...and that we would suddenly find ourselves intact except for our bodies, in some other dimension or realm. Would that qualify as "The Rapture?" It would to some folks, surely not to others.
This is the same Bible that says Jesus will come back out of the clouds, and every eye shall see him. To me this refers to the clouds of delusion, but most fundamentalists interpret this passage literally. Think about it. OK, so it's an overcast day....he comes down out of the clouds. What then? How does everyone see him? He does a Mighty Mouse routine and circles the globe a few hundred times? What about people sleeping? What about people who work underground? How does everyone see him? The obvious answer is that it's a metaphor, and I think the same is true of the rapture.
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Hi Whitecrow,
Two points to clarify things:
1. Ascension: Only one person has EVER ascended: Yahushua (or Jesus in most people's minds). What happened to Elijah was NOT ascension. It was a return of his spirit to Yahweh. Elijah does not have a spiritual body like Yahushua right now, not yet anyways. All this is scriptural. Read the Bible as a whole and DO NOT take a few verses out of context. What I mean is let the Bible interpret itself with verses from a different Book of the Bible.
2. Rapture: The rapture that the "Christian Church" talks about is false. There is no rapture before the tribulation. Read Luke 17 and get back with me. After reading that, start reading Matthew 24 and make comparisons. It is a false doctrine and WILL make billions of people lose faith and confidence with Yahweh. Because it WILL NOT happen! Christians and a lot of folks will be cursing Yahweh. If you have Yahweh's Spirit, start praying hard to find the real answers.
However, after the tribulation, Yahushua will come back to resurrect some of the dead and change the rest of the Saints who are still alive into an "ascended," spirit body, just like Yahushua. The second coming is the ONLY time Yahushua will be coming here. On the same day, this first resurrection will occur and every eye shall see him all at once. His second coming is not going to be silent. It will be a spectacular showcase. Be prepared for the coming of Yahweh's Kingdom.
-Phillip