Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 99
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Re: What was Jesus then?
Jesus and Sin and Faith
I think the assertion that Yeshua left Israel and spent years living in India studying occultic mysticism is a relatively recent New Age invention that has no basis in fact. There is no evidence to support the notion. It is a modern contrivance invented to redefine the Person and Purpose of the Lord's work in making salvation possible to mankind.
Yeshau Himself said during the time of His earthly ministry, "I have come only to the lost sheep of Israel."
The ancient records from over 25,000 manuscripts and fragments support what we have today as the Bible. No other work on the Earth comes close in quantity or quality to that bulk. From the eyewitness testimonies and fragments dating close to the time of the events of Yeshua, what we have indicates that the Lord lived in Nazareth as a humble house builder until the time He began His public ministry. Had He traveled so far to a goyim pagan land to study what any typical religious Jewish person would brand a false religion, Yeshua would not have been considered just a poor carpenter's son and He would have not been allowed to conduct teaching in synagogue as He did in Nazareth and Capernaum before He expanded to the rest of Israel. (Of course, as a Jewish man I may have a perspective of the subtleties of Jewish thinking and culture that you may not have experience to appreciate.)
I think your assertion that Yeshua dabled into Hindu occultism for 17 years in India is unscholarly and can not be supported with evidence. Present your scholarly evidence if you have it.
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I tried to make a strong case about the obligatory demand of the Law of God upon you and all other men. Our sin debt necessitates the redemptive work Yeshua did on the cross. As Yeshua said to the Pharisees,
"If you do not trust that I AM He, then you will die in your sins."
I know without a doubt if I spent just one day with you observing you around other people I could come up with a long list of sins for you of actions and words committed in direct violation of the Law of God. And anyone could do the same about me.
If you or anyone else would try to claim sinless perfection, I have no doubt I could expose that as a farce very quickly. The newspapers and journalists make a living doing that everyday to people all over the world, and the lawyers and courts making a living prosecuting lawbreakers everyday.
I think you tragically avoid dealing with the issue of sin. It is a legal issue of horrific significance. Sin is what will kill you, just as it did Adam HaRishon and as it has done to every other man since (excluding the Lord).
Whereas you assert Yeshua perfected Himself into godhood as if by some evolutionary effort He martialed from within Himself, I think the Apostles made clear in their testimonies: He was perfect from the beginning of His birth through to His death on the cross, and is glorified now with the same radiance He displayed when He momentarily transfigured in front of Peter, James and John.
Apostle Paul was emphatic in declaring,
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)
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This question about "What is Jesus" is a very important issue, because if the Lamb of God is not innocent and perfect in regards to the Law, and if He is not something greater than the Universal Law itself, then His substitutionary death on our behalf has no legal merit to satisfy our own sin debts to the Law, nor has it sufficient value to overcome the destructiveness of our transgressions. And if there is no Resurrection, then we are all just dead men eventually. If that is our hopeless lot, then "why not eat drink and be merry, since tomorrow we die?"
If you or anyone would assume hubris to declare you have no sin debt, then I think that is tragic for you. When crimes are committed in the common human law, there is the justified expectation of responsibility, accountability and consequential retribution. We demand it because we all want justice when we are wronged. I think denying sin debt is about as delusional as a pedophile saying he has no accountability to the parents of a boy that he molested. God forbid if ever the child is your own and was victimized by a pedophile! How would you respond if a judge had contempt for the law and let the guilty criminal go free to molest again and again? What if such a pedophile were a priest and what if the leader of those priests closed his eyes to it? Wouldn't you be enraged at the injustice?
But how do you feel for your own injustice to God and to your neighbor for moments of selfishness and neglect to love them with grace and giving as mandated by the First and Second Greatest Commandments?
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Because there is Justice in the Universe and there is Law in the Universe, then in my view, it is logical that there is also sin debt upon everyone who violates the Law.
Do you have a real appreciation for right and wrong, good and evil, righteousness and sinfulness? Is it all ammoral and relative to you? Can you keep the Law yourself? Can you honestly claim to be able to follow just the Ten Commandments perfectly for a year, or a month or even single a day? Have you ever seriously tried it? See how impossible it is!!
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I also see that you are dismissive of the critical importance and absolute necessity of FAITH in the Lord. You even seem to think that faith is some sort of perversion or conspiracy against people. You seem to assert we must workout our own "next evolutionary leap", as I see New Agers prefer to call the idea of Salvation. You seem to think that Yeshua perfected Himself into the status of godhood, as if to proclaim that is something we must do ourselves by our own efforts and thoughts. You seem to boast that men must recreate themselves into something that ascends to the status of God Himself.
I say go ahead and try if you are so convinced of it.
You may as well try to swim from Los Angeles to Hong Kong. Who knows how far you may get than the next man who may join with you. But I think you will all nevertheless fail to get to your destination. Of course, I won't be so foolish as to try to swim across the Pacific, when I can board a ship or airplane that will take me across. And for my soul's sake, I will put my trust in the Lord - relying upon His work at the Cross and the Resurrection to carry me to my Home.
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So work your way to eternal life and save yourself by your own works if you trust so much in yourself. But let me remind you what Apostle Paul clearly said to that issue:
"For it is by grace that you are saved through faith. And this salvation is not of your own doing, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesian 2:8-9)
Also I remind you of what the prophet Isaiah wrote concerning the intrinsic value of our good works and efforts:
"For we have all become like an unclean leper, and all our righteous deeds are like filthy infected rags; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, blow us away. And no one calls on Your name and awakens himself to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us and have delivered us into the consuming power of our iniquities. Yet, O Lord, You are our Father; we are the clay, and You are our Potter, and we all are the work of Your hand." (Isaiah 64:6-8)
Had Yeshua never come and died on the cross, substituting His own death sentence for the one we each deserve, then we would all still be "delivered into the consuming power of our iniquities" as Isaiah wrote. Salvation is the work of the Lord, not by us. He is our Potter and we are but clay. Our only work in this is to rely upon what He did and trust He will apply His own shed blood to our account to wash us clean.
The Jewish people asked that simple question of the Lord:
They then said, "What are we to do, that we may work out what God requires?
Jesus replied, "This is the work that God asks of you: that you trust in the One Whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29)
Faith is about relying upon what Yeshua worked out on our behalf, exclusive of anything we may do to add to it. Baptism has no merit. Church membership has no merit. Eucharist has no merit. Tithing has no merit. All these extraneous rituals and practices and good works do nothing to save a man's soul.
Faith is the victory. Total trust and reliance upon what Yeshua did for us is what pleases God. Remember what Paul wrote to the Jews:
"But without faith it is impossible to please to Him. For whoever would come near to God must necessarily first believe that God exists and that secondly He is the rewarder of those who diligently search for Him." (Hebrews 11:6)
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So... go ahead and try to workout your own salvation if you think you are up to it. Try to evolve yourself into a "homo neuvos" and become a New Age god if you think you can do it. You have free will given to you by God to make your choice. If you wish to work out your own salvation, you are given these mortal days to try and regain innocence and try to claim "not guilty".
I won't buy into that kind of delusion. I know what I am.
So as for me, I will put my trust in my risen Savior to wash my sins away, and I cry out "Dear God please be merciful to me a sinner." And I will hope for the victorious day when He defeats Death and the Grave for me, to raise my dead body out of the ground and present me before my Heavenly Father as one of His adopted immortal sons who has been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb who is my Lord - the Firstborn of the Resurrection.
Regards,
Merkhava
Last edited by Merkhava; 09-22-2008 at 09:56 AM.
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