Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) - View Single Post - Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

artvision · 07-23-2009, 12:51 PM

Dear WinterWolf,

Thank you for your feedback!

I put your remarks with lime green!

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups:
- the perils/menaces/dangers
- the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats

I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc

For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us.

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth.
I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now.

If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum.

Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built!

And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism.

Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme:

Just at grand ideas and nothing practically.

If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.

Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place.
As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us.

Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God?

prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12]

I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose.

Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans.

Everybody will have what will search after:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7]

So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others.

I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people.

Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve.

According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be:
Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone

This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation.

For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE

That is I tried to do, in that document here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution.
I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive.

Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas.

After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone.

Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise.

As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing:

1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked)
2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify)
3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information
4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements
5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good

So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude.

Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum.

Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks.

07-23-2009, 12:51 PM	#115
artvision Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 328	Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? Dear WinterWolf, Thank you for your feedback! I put your remarks with lime green! Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green. So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative? Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information? Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory? I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference. Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups: - the perils/menaces/dangers - the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us. The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff. Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone. I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth. I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now. If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum. Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built! And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism. Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme: Just at grand ideas and nothing practically. If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums. Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me. Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place. As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us. Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God? prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12] I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose. Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans. Everybody will have what will search after: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7] So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others. I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people. Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them? I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve. According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be: Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation. For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE That is I tried to do, in that document here: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871 A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution. I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive. Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas. After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone. Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise. As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing: 1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked) 2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify) 3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information 4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements 5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude. Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum. Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks. Last edited by artvision; 07-23-2009 at 01:13 PM.