Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) - Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

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Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Hello spiritual members of Avalon. Many members believe that Religion
should be in another sub-forum in the spirituality section.
This would prevent many religious debates in spiritual threads that only focus on spiritual information.

Other religious members believe that they should express their religion in
spiritual topics in the spirituality forum without a religious sub-forum.

Please participate in this Poll to express if a Religion sub-forum should be created in the Spirituality section.

This opinion poll will help the administration know of your feelings concerning this topic.

thanks,
Kevin - Project Avalon Spiritual Mediator

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Spiritual members please vote on this topic. Because it may come up in the next mod team meeting. Thanks.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Yes there should be as well as one for politics!!!!!! :wall::wall::wall:

The only positive result from banging your head against a brick wall, is that it's so nice when you can stop! :original:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Thanks Brinty... That reminds me....

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinty (Post 68559)

Yes there should be as well as one for politics!!!!!! :wall::wall::wall:

The only positive result from banging your head against a brick wall, is that it's so nice when you can stop! :original:

Lol yeah! :roll1:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

We should have a Religion AND a Spirituality section. They are both coming from totally different angles. Let the religious and spiritual people discuss amongst themselves rather then argue.

The only disadvantage to this, however, is that there will be no sharing of different ideas among the two groups. If an individual really wanted to know what was going on, they could always visit the other section. Keep them separate, keep them peaceful.

Love you All,

CYLNow

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

lol.. here was me thinking that religion had become obsolete..

Why religion? Lets just call it knowledge or information... why the need to .. gahh :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

Making a religion sub forum would just be adding to the divisions that surround us already.

Its not the lack of a forum thats causing any problematic religious debates, its the fact that a lot of people dont have enough manners to stick to the topic. Thats why i totally think this place should be subscription only, it would seperate the fun loving people who just come here for a laugh from the people who actually realise how serious these times are, and what it means to us as a people.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

I had to say NO, as "spirituality" seems to be the same as "religion" in that it is all about feelings, planes of existance, levels of consciousness, and so on of feelings.

As I study the ancient writings for hard core physical evidence, it is from no spiritual aspect.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

This whole forum is based on "religion" like it not. Perhaps you mean world view?http://education.yahoo.com/reference...entry/religion

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Keep in mind while voting that Religion will still be in Spirituality.
This is a vote for a sub-forum for organization.
There have been some complaints about preaching.
So preachers will be put into the Religion sub-forum
to keep the spiritual information flowing in the other threads
if the vote is for a sub-forum.

However, if you want preaching to be expressed in spirituality,
then this will be respected as well.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Religion is based on historical concepts and system of beliefs combined for a common interest, usually proven and given by ancient texts and tradition passed on by mankind. Spirituality is an "invisible" to the naked eye but nurtured and perceived by an individual's spirit of thought, perception, and humbling or ascension growth governed either by outside forces, yourself, and/or a higher being such as our Creator, Yahweh Elohim. Religion seems to interconnect with spirituality at different levels. Because a lot of times, mankind's perspective (not mine though) of religion is the outcome of spirituality.

We need to keep them in a central location to better discuss them. I, personally, would separate them. Because religion can be deceptive at many levels. But in this case, we need to keep them together to better understand each person's beliefs in case somebody, somewhere there is going to be a living soul who needs to study religion and spirituality to fully comprehend the Truth. We need to keep them both in the Spirituality Section.

-Phillip

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 68664)

Keep in mind while voting that Religion will still be in Spirituality.
This is a vote for a sub-forum for organization.
There have been some complaints about preaching.
So preachers will be put into the Religion sub-forum
to keep the spiritual information flowing in the other threads
if the vote is for a sub-forum.

However, if you want preaching to be expressed in spirituality,
then this will be respected as well.

What makes discussing about your beliefs in Spirituality not preaching? Keep it the same.

-Phillip

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Religion SEEMS to cause more strife and judgment.
Spirituality SEEMS to make one think about other feelings on things and understand perspective more.

But on the same note, I have seen people convert from religion to spirituality.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Wikipedia is a good source for me it helps clear things up:

Quote:

Preacher is a term the for someone who preaches sermons or gives homilies.

Some believe a preacher is distinct from a theologian by focusing on the communication of the doctrine rather than the development of the doctrine. Others see preaching and theology as being intertwined. Preaching is not limited to religious views, but it extends to moral and social world-views as well. Preachers are common throughout most cultures. They can take the form of a Christian minister on a Sunday morning, or an Islamic Imam or Da'ee on a Friday afternoon. The point of preaching is to inform or convince the hearer of a certain world-view or belief. For this reason, many nonreligious persons shun preachers and accuse them of forcing beliefs on people. Preaching also serves as reminders and encouragements to people who already subscribe to the preacher's beliefs. For many, the term preacher is derogatory, while some consider it an honor.

The preaching of sermons is especially prominent in Protestantism, especially among those denominations that feature revivalism. Lay preachers often figure in these traditions of worship, for example the Methodist local preachers. Among Roman Catholics, the Dominican Order is officially known as the Order of Preachers (Ordo Praedicatorum in Latin); friars of this order were trained to publicly preach in vernacular languages, and the order was created by Saint Dominic to preach to the Cathars of southern France in the early thirteenth century.

In many churches in the United States, the title "Preacher" is synonymous with "Pastor" or "Minister", and the churches minister is often referred to simply as "our/the preacher" or by name such as "Preacher Smith". Sometimes the minister may even be addressed by using the word, such as "Good morning, Preacher".

************

Quote:

A guru (Sanskrit: गुरु, Bengali: গুরু) is a person who is regarded as having great knowledge, wisdom and authority in a certain area, and uses it to guide others. The word comes from Sanskrit Gu, darkness, and Ru, light (prakash); literally a preceptor who shows others knowledge (light) and destroys ignorance (darkness).

It also means "teacher" or "guide" in the religious sense, and is commonly used in Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism, as well as in some new religious movements. The guru is seen in these religions as a sacred conduit for wisdom and guidance, and finding a true guru is often held to be a prerequisite for attaining self-realization.

"Guru" also refers in Sanskrit to Brihaspati, a Hindu divine figure. In Vedic astrology, Guru or Brihaspati is believed to exert teaching influences. Indeed, in many Indian languages such as Hindi, the occidental Thursday is called either Brihaspativaar or Guruvaar (vaar meaning day of the week).

In contemporary India and Indonesia, the word "guru" is widely used with the general meaning of "teacher", including by schoolchildren. In Western usage, the meaning of guru has been extended to cover anyone who acquires followers, though not necessarily in an established school of philosophy or religion. [1] In a further Western metaphorical extension, guru is used to refer to a person who has authority because of his or her perceived secular knowledge or skills.

************

Quote:

A religion is a set of tenets and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, or religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

In the frame of western religious thought,[1] religions present a common quality, the "hallmark of patriarchal religious thought": the division of the world in two comprehensive domains, one sacred, the other profane.[2] Religion is often described as a communal system for the coherence of belief focusing on a system of thought, unseen being, person, or object, that is considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine, or of the highest truth. Moral codes, practices, values, institutions, tradition, rituals, and scriptures are often traditionally associated with the core belief, and these may have some overlap with concepts in secular philosophy. Religion is also often described as a "way of life" or a life stance.

The development of religion has taken many forms in various cultures. "Organized religion" generally refers to an organization of people supporting the exercise of some religion with a prescribed set of beliefs, often taking the form of a legal entity (see religion-supporting organization). Other religions believe in personal revelation. "Religion" is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system,"[3] but is more socially defined than that of personal convictions.

************

Quote:

Spirituality, in a narrow sense, concerns itself with matters of the spirit, a concept closely tied to religious belief and faith, a transcendent reality, or one or more deities. Spiritual matters are thus those matters regarding humankind's ultimate nature and purpose, not only as material biological organisms, but as beings with a unique relationship to that which is perceived to be beyond both time and the material world. Spirituality also implies the mind-body dichotomy, which indicates a separation between the body and soul.

As such, the spiritual is traditionally contrasted with the material, the temporal and the worldly. A perceived sense of connection forms a central defining characteristic of spirituality — connection to a metaphysical reality greater than oneself, which may include an emotional experience of religious awe and reverence, or such states as satori or nirvana. Equally importantly, spirituality relates to matters of sanity and of psychological health. Spirituality is the personal, subjective dimension of religion, particularly that which pertains to liberation or salvation (see also mysticism and esoterism) .

Spirituality as a way of life concerns itself with aligning the human will and mind with that dimension of life and the universe that is harmonious and ordered. As such spiritual disciplines (which are often part of an established religious tradition) enjoin practitioners (trainees or disciples) to cultivate those higher potentialities of the human being that are more noble and refined (wisdom and virtue). Accordingly, many spiritual traditions across diverse cultures share similar vocabulary. Terms such as the "path", the "work", the "practice" are universally applied to the ongoing discipline involved in transforming the coarser energies present in the human soul into more subtle and pleasing ones. As a spiritual practitioner one seeks to become free of the lesser egoic self (or ego) in favor of being more fully one's "true" "Self".

************

I am not here to debate with the members.
This poll and thread is for you.
The outcome of the poll will decide the fate of the spirituality section.
Happy Voting!
If you want religion with spirituality that is okay with me.
If you want religion in a sub-forum that is okay with me.
This thread is for you to decide.
If it is no big deal, then it is no big deal.
If it is a big deal, tell us why.

THIS POLL CLOSES ONE DAY FROM NOW

Peace,
Kevin

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Religion = power = control. Isn't this what we are fighting against?
Religion should have it's own room. In a different building.:mad3::mfr_lol:
Where there is religion, there is conflict.:hammer:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

To clarify, what attributes does a subforum have that a forum does not have>

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Wikipedia - New Age

Quote

New Age
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

New Age (New Age Movement and New Age Spirituality) is a decentralized western social and spiritual movement that seeks Universal Truth and the attainment of the highest individual human potential. It combines aspects of spirituality, cosmology, esotericism, complementary and alternative medicine, various religious practices, humanism, collectivism, nature, and environmentalism. It is characterized by an eclectic and individual approach to spirituality with a general rejection of mainstream dogma and religion.

The term New Age refers to the coming Astrological Age of Aquarius.

The New Age Movement first appeared in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, gained momentum in the 1960s and 1970s, strengthened in the 1980s, and organized with the Harmonic Convergence in 1987. New Age practices and philosophies are found among many diverse individuals from around the world and range from atheism and monotheism to classical pantheism, including naturalistic pantheism or panentheism.[citation needed]

The New Age Movement includes elements of older spiritual and religious traditions combined with science, particularly ecology, environmentalism, the Gaia hypothesis, and psychology. New Age practices and philosophies sometimes draw inspiration from major world religions: Buddhism, Chinese folk religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and Sufism; with particularly strong influences from East Asian religions, Gnosticism, Neopaganism, New Thought, Spiritualism, Universalism, and Western esotericism.[1]

New Age Spirituality has led to a wide array of literature on the subject and an active niche market: books, New Age music, crafts, and services in alternative medicine are available at New Age stores, fairs, and festivals.[2][3][4][5]

Additional phrases are used to describe The New Age Movement: Self Spirituality, New Spirituality, Mind-Body-Spirit,[6][7] Cultural Creative, Everyone Is Equal, New Paradigm, and All Is One.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Un-sticking this thread and letting it float down the river.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2infinityandbeyond (Post 68592)

Making a religion sub forum would just be adding to the divisions that surround us already.

Thank you, there's your answer.

I am also one who should speak as many have probably seen me and ctophil go at it with each other. The reason being is I do feel he is going off topic and preaching his beliefs, versus actively participating in the discussion and sharing his beliefs. There is a difference between 'sharing' and 'preaching'.

And on that note, thank you Arcora :) We have discussed our different views, specifically in relation to religion and spirituality, in a constructive and positive manner.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

There are those here who follow the 'Law of one' religiously.

Where will they post?

Or are you referring to religion as going to a church, mosque or synagogue? (because I haven't ever seen any member post about that)

Or are you just trying to create a schism?

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

YES please. So I don't have to listen to others preaching their belief systems. Some believe there is a difference to be spiritually enlighten to believing in recycled Babylonian sun worship

:wall:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

I like to keep things simple. In my terms of reference, be they right or wrong, religion is about a belief in a God. While spirituality is about a belief in the existence of the spirit, soul or whatever you like to call it, independent of the body.

Nothing I've read or heard has induced me to believe the two are dependent on each other. I've known a few religious folk who are not spiritual, and I've known a lot of spiritual people who aren't religious.

If others wish to combine the two, fine - just don't try selling the concept to me. I've got as much use for it as the headless horseman has for a hat. :no:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

I voted No. Keep them as one thread. Here's why:

First of all the whole purpose of religion supposedly is unity...well, that's a bad joke really, but supposedly that's what it's all about, right? So how are we gonna move in that direction while moving apart?

Second, we're going to have to start getting along sometime. Anything that encourages disunity is moving us the wrong direction. It's a new world, let's not carry our old paradigms and habits along into it.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

I don't believe that voting yes is about devision rather than ease of reading, staying in the flow of the topic. Otherwise the tangents are literally multidimensional.
:harp:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

I do not think we need a separate sub-forum for "religion." What's next? A separate sub-forum for each separate religion? We are here to "share" imformation -- not argue over it and cram it down each others' throats.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

It seems the problem is more about the divisiveness of preaching than personal worldviews?

If so maybe that's an issue for the mods to manage on an incidental basis, rather than creating a seperate 'preaching' forum?

I am probably guilty of preaching too, even though I consider myself spiritual and not religious.

Personally, I'm drawn to these kind of issues though, so I'd find it helpful if the mods picked me up on certain incidents at the time, rather than feeling like I'd have to troll into someone's sub-turf to talk about the things I'm into...

I'd like us all to feel comfortable together, rather than an 'us vs them' thing arising.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Problem is the religious believe they are simply spiritual.

:wall:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Kevin, I like your polls man.

I stickied this poll, lets leave it stuck for a few days.

I voted yes. The reason I think that is that there is a distinct difference between new age spirituality and the more traditional religeous approaches. One needs a way to tune appropriately to the streams of information that are relevant.

From my perspective for example, the new-age spirituality is very different to the christian backed view of same, and I would vote to have the traditional views (not new-age) in a separate place.

If we do it, it will be an interesting challenge for the moderators to moderate the distinction.

A..

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

First, call a spade a spade.

Your poll is about relegating any discussion of biblical thought to a subforum - Just say it out loud, we're all adults here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchor (Post 69006)

If we do it, it will be an interesting challenge for the moderators to moderate the distinction.

A..

And that is because it is all intertwined.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

There is no religion better then the other. I am an orthodox christian from Europe, but I respect all other religions / sub-religions across the world as well.

Our paths are different, but at the end we'll all meet each other "on the other side" and realise that it was all just an expression of our earthly ego.

So IMO, no need for a religion sub-forum! If there is any, then it is also fine for me. I must not participate.

There is sooo much more then "our" religions to learn about!!!

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Once again Kevin great question,
I heard once that the Latin word for religion is 'to re-link' and to be spiritual is also the same. I feel keeping them in the same place is good...I have read the 'preaching syndrom' from both sides, Religious and Spiritual here in this place. I think what we need to remember is this...every human has their own path to follow and how they travel is uniquely and wonderfully their own. Whether the path be straight or crooked they all lead to one thing....and along that path all are continuing to cultivate and evolve the truth of themselves and the experiences of the 'being of human' in all it's wonderful expressions. No more sub-forms please, it's getting so confusing for us not so savvy forumers to keep up with all of it.:original:
Thank You
Namasta

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Kevin - Project Avalon Spiritual Mediator would want EVERY topic that EVERY member has wrote about to be each topic sub-forum? Kevin should have his own sub-forum, so in that way we the members do not need to waste our time and energy reading his threads-posts.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Keep spirituality and religion together. Separation just reflects what many so-called 'religious' folk already do, especially within certain sects and factions of the, so-called, montheistic traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. So if we separate spirituality and religion into sub-forums or separate forums, are we not just reinforcing this separitist notion?

I personally have a spiritual perspective that I consider not to be religious. However, someone else might consider my beliefs to be 'religious' rather than 'spiritual'. I do not think there is a clear line between the two.

I respect the right of all to believe as they wish, even if I do not aggree. My only limit to this is when 'religious' or 'spiritual' belief is imposed upon the uninitiated. It thus becomes potentially harmful to those who are not able or are not in a position to discern. We are all at that stage at some point in our lives, usually during periods of major life change and personal crisis. This is when some of the more 'in your face' groups (some are defined as 'cults', but I have seen similar tactics carried out by mainstream evangelical and fundamentalist Christian groups as well) are able to take advantage of our vulnerability and innocence.

Some might say that religious leaders preach, whilst spiritual leaders teach. However, I do not think the distinction is as clear cut as that. Many apparent spiritual teachers are in fact preaching, imposing their beliefs and ideas upon others in the guise of spiritual wisdom. This is true within certain 'New Age' groups as well as within what most of us would refer to as 'cults' or 'religious' factions or sects. Within many, if not most, religious and spiritual teachers and leaders, there is a large dose of 'Ego' and the "I know best, because I have studied and/or received knowledge from a higher source" syndrome.

So, keep 'religion' and 'spirituality' together. Allow us posters to take responsibility for what we choose to read, write or believe. This helps us all to learn and practice discernment and discretion in our personal journey to truth and meaning. After all, we are all at different stages on our spiritual journey.

Best Wishes

Truthseeker (Andrew)

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Thank you for participating in this poll.
When I first created this poll,
I had my doubts because I know
what a sensitive issue this is for some people.
If this topic has made anyone feel uncomfortable,
I apologize.

The poll is split down the middle.
And if this comes up in the meeting,
more than likely they will not
create a sub-forum which will have
nothing to do with this thread.
They probably won't want to
do the work. And that is understandable.

However, if by chance a sub-forum
for Religion is created in the future,
that decision will be made by the admin.

Thanks for your participation,
Kevin

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Quote:

And if this comes up in the meeting

Kevin, I have heard you talked about a 'meeting'. Maybe in this meeting, that is how and why Bill and Kerry would spend the member's $$$???

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

religion!?? maybe we should have a GOP and a democratic subforum for the liberal and conservative posters!!

im with 2infinity and gregarturo on this. we shouldve dropped our political leanings and religious views before we even got into this forum. we should be far beyond that already. sigh!

discussing ANY religious concept is a step in the wrong direction.

this is about each person making a one-on-one connection with the Creator. we dont need synagogues, temples, shrines, churches, or pagodas or any of those religious leaders anymore-- havent we moved past that already? havent we seen what religion has caused by dividing humanity over the centuries? i thought most here have thrown OFF societys shackles.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum? (Vote Here)

Quote:

religion!?? maybe we should have a GOP and a democratic subforum for the liberal and conservative posters!!

im with 2infinity and gregarturo on this. we shouldve dropped our political leanings and religious views before we even got into this forum. we should be far beyond that already. sigh!

discussing ANY religious concept is a step in the wrong direction.

this is about each person making a one-on-one connection with the Creator. we dont need synagogues, temples, shrines, churches, or pagodas or any of those religious leaders anymore-- havent we moved past that already? havent we seen what religion has caused by dividing humanity over the centuries? i thought most here have thrown OFF societys shackles.

That is a GREAT IDEA for Avalon. Kevin should want sub-forum FOR: synagogues, temples, shrines, churches, pagodas and religious c.r.a.p.

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Oh for gawd sake, the survival of the human race has nothing to do with religion and its perverted dogma.
:thumbdown:

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Religion becomes the legacy of a Spiritual being...
Religion without contact with the living Spiritual Heart is a dead corpse...

Man are abusing spirituality by using religion to serve selfish ends...

It is high time for the advent of another Spiritual Heart on earth to bury the religious corpses...and live and teach shining spiritual love and truth to mankind...no doubt in due time will man deteriorate and destroy this teachers legacy also...

so it goes...this wonderful Drama of Divinity ...

Re: Should there be a Religion sub-forum in Spirituality? (Vote Here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneworld719 (Post 69105)

Once again Kevin great question,
I heard once that the Latin word for religion is 'to re-link' and to be spiritual is also the same.

The latin word is "religio".
It means "to bind". It can also be used to mean "restrain" or "hold back" or "group" depending on the context it is used.
Latin is a very precise language ;)