can you FORGIVE us?
 

forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment,
indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or
mistake, and/or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution.

forgiveness and letting go can lead you down the path of healing and peace.
forgiveness is a healing journey for both body and soul. yet, even if you
know in your heart that you want or need to forgive someone, the path
toward peace can be difficult.

sept. 11th 2001 was a rude and violent wake up call for me.
I was two blocks away from the towers on that horrible morning, spent 8
years on head pills trying to cope with it. and even today, many years later,
those images are as fresh in my mind as the day they happened.

this holds true for most anyone who has born witness to a tragedy. it can
create depression, anxiety, panic and post traumatic stress disorder...
which in turn can create quite the domino effect of negative behaviors and
patterns in one's life.

so how does someone overcome something like this?

forgiveness.

I bring up this up because we are now fast approaching a time when many
truths will finally be set free. and as joyous as this seems, it will be very
debilitating for most people. most of these truths will rock the foundation of
people's belief systems and be very terrifying. remember how you felt
finding most of these things out for yourself, or how you feel about 911?

I've been able to forgive the adults who took advantage, a mother who
wasn't ready, a father who wasn't there, the friends who lied to me, the
lovers who've betrayed me and most important, I've even been able to
forgive myself... but 911 has been the most difficult.

maybe because 911 affected so many people, not just myself. maybe
because of the horrendous injustice. either way, it has been very hard.

so I wonder, as we are approach some of the biggest disclosures known to
man, will we all be able to forgive all the lies and deception?

after all the other emotions a human goes through when facing something
very bad, forgiveness and love are the only things to set us free from the
pain. so maybe we should start practicing forgiveness now, before the all
big ones hit.

forgive your family, forgive your friends, your neighbors, your enemies,
yourself, your governments, the bad e.t.s... even forgive all the
malevolent beings too.

not only will you be freeing yourself from the pain, you will be doing what
I think is the greatest thing you could give another person besides
unconditional love... leading by example.

maybe if we (the ones who are awake) all start doing this now, we will set
the pace for all our friends and loved ones who are not yet aware.

just a thought :wub2:

~ love in you ~

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

It' looks like more than a thought.. It's a perspective! and a very good one at that, brilliant writing my friend.

Kinsuemei

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

i will second that :thumb_yello:
sounds like you have found your way illuminate
and yes i believe that you are right in that we can by our own thoughts and actions set an example for others, leading by example really does work, its a beautifull in its passiveness, and so not judging and aggressive.

thank you for shareing this insight
love
m x

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Nice one Illuminate...I've been wrestling with this for so long....It's like an extra limb you don't really need. An itch that no matter how much you scratch doesn't go away.

There was another thread today with a short film I watched about the EGO and vengeance stems from the great liar EGO.

The EGO is bruised so we have to lash out at someone....and it's all a lie.

I hold grudges forever and the only one that ever was on the receiving end of my vengeance or was hurt by it....was ME

I'm starting to lay all those things down ....hoping to NEVER pick them up again.

Peace Y'all

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

THX Stragazer for being so forthcoming, we need to hear this to know we are not alone!

and THX to you, Kinsuemei2 and Morguana for your understanding and love.

in writing this post and starting this thread, it is helping me to find
forgiveness for 911. this has been the hardest thing for me to do, and it has
taken the past 9 years to even get to a point where I able and ready to do
so.

my heart goes out to all my brothers and sisters for what they are going to
be made aware of soon. I want to be the best I can be to help others get
through everything we are about to face.

it's one thing to know something and a whole other thing to actually implement it.
"be the change you want to see..."

we CAN do it.
and when we can't quite do it alone, we CAN do it together :original:

I forgive us!

~ love in you ~

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

difficulty in forgiving looks to me now as a function of the proverbial veil. While we are disconnected from the rest of ourselves, as in higher aspects, we are really not privy to what agreements we hold in our higher aspects.

I recently noticed once again how great tragedy is met with great outpourings of love and compassion. The Haiti Quake. I knew at once higher work was accompanying the sorrow and pain on the ground. Asking my higher guides about it, they instantly confirmed what my intuition was telling me. On a soul level, those courageous beings in Haiti were using that incident as a ride home. They knew they were not going to be participating in this "on the ground" ascension, and were going to be checking out early. They volunteered on a soul level, a level of their existence they are not even probably aware of in their 3D Aspects, to be in Haiti at that particular time to experience that mass "leaving" because it is not only a way to "go out with a bang", but it was known by all that the resultant out pouring of love and compassion from all over the world would crank our cosmic conscious vibratory level as a collective incarnated here on earth, up to a new frequency level.

I've come to view the 911 episode in much the same way. No matter how much the negative beings have used that incident to attempt drive in ever more draconian controls on the populations, the immediate counter wave of love and compassion, that followed within minutes, the shock and fear of the actual event, caught them completely by surprise. That wasn't supposed to happen. The world was supposed to fall neatly under their control after 911. It didn't. The worlds heart opened up a little more, and continues to do so every time they engineer another of their nasty events.

On our higher aspect levels, we are doing much much better in this game than it appears on the ground. We are managing to transmute every one of their feeble attempts at driving us down into fear into an opportunity to increase our love and compassion.

And it's making them a little trigger shy. It's like everytime they shoot one of us, the rest grow stronger and more loving.

Forgiveness is easy when you consider that everyone of their evil deeds, drives us inexorably towards love and compassion, instead of the expected fear and dismay.

we are winning this.

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Dear Illuminate - Beautiful Soul! :wub2:
You writting is so honest, so full of Love, true Love. I am moved.

"To reconcile conflicting parties, we must have the ability to understand the suffering of both sides." -- Thich Nhat Hanh

Bllesings for you!

in Love and Light
Astra:wub2:

"Let us forgive each other - only then will we live in peace”-- Leo Tolstoy

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

You must forgive first yourself and then ALL others , they( being tptb) feed on the negative emotion . From your post you've done fanstasticlly well:thumb_yello:

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thank you very much Myplanet2 for this valuable reminder.
this darn illusion can seem so real at times that it's easy to forget
that we choose...
Thank you for your wisdom :original:

and what a very sweet and heartfelt reply Astra...THANK U :wub2:

and Scanner, your statement is exactly the wisdom we need to hear and be reminded of... THANK U :wub2:

and THANK U to the rest of you for reading and opening your hearts!

~ love in you ~

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

These are the threads that make a difference. Thank you so much.

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

So, you are a witness from two blocks away. That's so close you couldn't even see the top of the towers without straining your neck to look way, way, up. What you must have seen is enough for several lifetimes! You can of course stop reliving by changing your memory loop. As soon as one starts up, recognize it, and release it. Also, you don't have to repeat similar events in order to "freshen" the pain. I'm so glad you know this! Move above, by moving up on the spiral. Dr. Katie Gentile wrote an article about recovering from seeing the NYC towers fall. She worked in the city and witnessed both the tower fall and the Hudson River plane incident from a dock in Jersey. I will send her article to you. She has some very interesting ideas about forgiveness, retribution, and healing. Thank you so much for opening your heart to us. We won't forget but we can forgive. It's the only way out. Love to you, Linda

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Apologies for length...couldn't figure out any other way to let Illuminate see this. Katie is a clinical psychologist who specializes in the impact of trauma. Linda


Original with permission from Katie to Linda March, 2009.

SAME PLACE, DIFFERENT STORY --Katie Gentile, Ph.D.
On the morning of September 11, 2001, I was on my way to work as usual when my partner, who had returned to our apartment to get something he forgot, ran out saying there had been an explosion at the World Trade Center. A helicopter or plane had hit it. We continued to the train (we live in Hoboken, directly across the Hudson River from Manhattan near the World Trade Center).
We rounded the street corner and approached the first pier in Hoboken to catch the train into the city. The sight of the Towers against a beautiful clear blue sky came into view, as well as an enormous fire with smoke streaming from the North Tower.
From there, near the first pier in Hoboken, I watched as a plane suddenly appeared low in the sky and struck the South Tower. I turned to my partner, and we left, not knowing or understanding what was about to take place.
This pier is where people gathered to watch from across the river as the towers burned and fell. It was a busy site for the next week or so, as people from throughout the area came to see the space of absence in the sky.
This past Thursday as I was walking again to the train my partner called to say a plane had crashed into the Hudson River. Deja-vu. I went to the pier again to see what was happening. This time it was different.
First, word was that everyone had survived. Additionally, this plane was surrounded by ferries, the Coast Guard and the Circle Line ships who were all able to help. Like watching the events of 9/11, there was something surreal about seeing a plane float down the river. But unlike 9/11, it was not terrifying; it was merely surreal.
I am an academic psychologist and trained psychoanalyst. I publish and specialize in the impact of trauma. So it was interesting to me that as I watched the plane float by, knowing the positive outcome, I felt I was re-experiencing 9/11 in a new way.
It is thought that people who have experienced trauma attempt to master it through repetition. For me, this was a healing repetition. Here I was in the same place, looking at another plane crash, under the same sunny blue sky, but it was markedly different.
Many of the things that we were unable to do during 9/11, we were able to do this time. The New York Waterways Ferries we often take into Manhattan were the first responders. And this time, in this situation, they were able to save the lives of the passengers.
It felt on Thursday like this plane crash, while in no way being a good thing -- I would not have wanted to be in that plane nor in the frigid water hoping for help -- was responded to in a new way.
Yes, no one died. But the pilot's knowledge is being celebrated. He knew what to do. The benefits of a skilled leader are being acknowledged as a good thing; a life-saving quality and a necessity.
I feel like the plane's successful water landing burst a bubble for me that was created by seven years of world-altering insidious abuses of power by U.S. leaders who showed no capacity to reflect, think or hold emotion. It burst it with a story about knowledgeable leaders, such as the pilots and crew, who knew what to do, and did it.
Again, I am in no way saying the crash was a good thing because it wasn't. Even though no one died, it doesn't mean that people weren't impacted and potentially harmed in significant ways.

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thank you Linda and I appreciate you!!!

and yes 2 blocks away was too close, I ran screaming for my life when the
first tower collapsed and didn't stop running and screaming until I hit the
east river and could run no more. I thought for sure I was dead and my
boyfriend at the time, was standing there with me, video taping the whole
thing. we lost each other in the sea of white smoke and weren't reunited
until almost 24 hours later.

that is the day I learned the true meaning of the kindness of strangers.

THX for the advice on changing my memory loop, this is important for me,
because it's the images that I can't seem to forget.

if anyone else want to speak up, please do, it's an amazing release to talk
about it!

~ love in you ~

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Yes, we can and we will. We are starting a domino effect right now. We cannot get to anywhere good in the future until we let good of the old. As more and more people get excited about the future, that excitement will be contagious. With such a positive outlook, there will be no more room to hold on to what has happened in days past.

--sjkted

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

EXACTLY! and FANTASTIC attitude sjkted, thank you for setting this example.

that is why I bring up forgiveness, it's a perfect way to truly move forward
and leave the past in the past. plus, it helps heal your soul... I only threw
in my personal journey to give a reference point and to show that it's
always possible.

I for one, am VERY excited about our future and think 2012 will be the
beginning of many amazing celebrations :original:

~ love in you ~

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

I absolutely support the idea or forgiveness every day of our lives.
The most incredible paradigm we have to understand is than we don't know in a conscious level that perhaps some of the people who have done wrong to us, could be other aspects of ourselves doing what they came to do so we can repay or balance karmic debts.
Every time somebody says something about revenge or their desire to see other person in jail or dead or whatever else because they did something terrible, I always wonder what if.... and the lesson is always the same: NO JUDGMENT!!!
We just don't know.
Couples divorce in a sea of grudge and much negative energy without understanding that ALL relationships end at one time or another, nobody is obliged to be with us forever or for a lifetime, some relationships are meant for a short time and life or the universe takes care of that in very curious ways so we have to end the relationship even though we sometimes attach ourselves to other people because of fear or insecurity.
I really believe that just when we have the chance of remembering past lives this concept becomes really clear, otherwise most people keep on believing this is the only life we live and our only chance at love and hate.
So definitely forgiveness it's not just a good idea, actually forgiveness is LOVE for ourselves and others and it's the fastest way to light our some times heavy load, it makes us feel sooooo much better.
In order to do that, judgment has to out of our lives.

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thank you for this awesome thread! :wub2:

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thank-you illuminate...and all posters on this thread. 9/11 seems to have awakened a sleeping giant...in a good way...even though it was probably intended to do just the opposite.

illuminate...you mentioned that your partner videotaped some of the tragedy that day. What became of that tape? Did it reveal any hidden clues? Also...you mentioned that there are revelations which will be difficult for people to deal with. Are these revelations related in any way to 9/11? It seems to me that 9/11 is part of a huge Pandora's Box...which includes a lot of what gets discussed in Avalon.

Reasonable immunity in exchange for disclosure, cooperation, and restitution...seems reasonable to me. Forgiveness is a good thing...but reasonable restitution should be a part of the package. Punishment may also have to be meted out under the laws of the land...but somehow the goal should be to turn the bad-guys into good-guys...and for the rest of us to forgive...but not necessarily forget.

:original:Namaste:original:

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Not just that. It also points out how petty it is to have grudges with other people once you realize what causes some of these "problems" with other people that last lifetimes to resolve. None of it serves any purpose whatsoever. It is simply garbage to be discarded once you see it for what it is.

--sjkted

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Great thread Tania.

Sometimes I'll wind up in a conversation with someone who says something like "I can never forgive him or her for such a thing." I tell them that forgiveness isn't something that you do to let the other person off the hook. Forgiveness is actually a gift to the self. It frees you from the poison thoughts and resentments that when harbored will corrode both your physical and spiritual health. It takes the weight off of your shoulders and puts it back where it belongs.

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

I wanted to add one more thing....This was the event that led to my awakening....Nothing added up and what was being pandered on the TV never set right with me.

But it took till Illuminate said it in this thread to bring something home to me.

I realized I was still mad and angry about these folks dieing so needlessly.

That it was an even on so many levels trying to make fools out of us to think we would swallow this garbage.

Then yesterday I realized it was my EGO screaming for revenge and retribution and the only thing I could do is really forgive.

In that forgiveness I grow and move on.

Whatever this was orchestrated for....it only worked a short while...Now here comes the PEace blowback!!!!

Peace all

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thank you illuminate for this beautifull thread :wub2:

The more we forgive ..the more we Love
The more we love .. the more we enjoy the present moment
The more we enjoy the present moment ..the more we are at peace
The more we are at peace ..the more we balance the world.
Love is every step .

Love for You
mudra

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Forgiveness is choosing to love. It is the first skill of self-giving love. --Mahatma Gandhi

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

I'm sure he still has it. we separated not long after 911 and I moved from
my beloved NYC in 2002. I'm sure he probably sold/gave the tape to someone
(he worked in the entertainment biz)


unfortunately no, it mostly contained the horror. people jumping to escape,
and the screams... I should have NEVER watched the darn thing, but I did,
and these are some of the images I am now desperately trying to forget.



gosh I sure hope not :original:
I was referring to (and sorry if I implied otherwise) the truths about E.T's,
religions, governments, HOW POWERFUL WE ARE... most of what has been
kept from humankind will shake us at the core of our being, our beliefs
systems, to learn that most of what we've been taught is a lie. how is
someone going to feel when they find out that their religion is man made
and not all true, or that their government has been brainwashing them since
they started going to school. no-one likes to be lied to, or betrayed, and I
worry that some of these truths will be so hard to swallow for most, that
forgiveness will be the last thing on their minds.

I want everyone to know, that no matter what, it is ALL OK. that it is not
real, this is an illusion. we chose this to have the experience, to learn, to
evolve and no matter how horrific something may seem, like 911, we chose
to experience it so that we can have the chance to forgive... gosh I hope
that makes sense.

let us remember... all we need is LOVE :wub2:

so, lets take this LOVE and spread it, share it, give it... we CAN tip the
scales, we CAN create anything we want. we CAN win the game.

~ I Love Us ~

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

*

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

All we need is love :wub2:

I quite agree, and you, Illuminate have written here from the heart.

How good that feels to read. Truth. Your truth. In an alternative media full of extortions.

How different that reads to hearsay and speculation and fear based conjecture.

If only everyone would write and speak their truth from their heart, we would know each other so much better.

Thanks for your writing. Yes, forgiving ourselves is surely the first step, but using our hearts comes even before that i'm sure!

Peace n love n thanks

K

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Beautiful thread illuminate... Thank you :)

Learning forgiveness is the lesson because it allows us to maintain our love at all times and therefor know it even more truly. Share it with everyone.

I forgive us, for we did not know... or rather .. could not remember.

Also, I forgive myself for what I have forgotten.

In light of love
Shaynard

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

:wub2:

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

You know... it's worth bumping this thread... because I can see it slide idly into oblivion, while postings about the doings of the American administration and advance civilisation and all that claptrap you already know about because you've been mopping it up for the last year or so are riding high at the top of the Avalon hit parade.

So take a moment to ask yourself, who have you forgiven today ?

Forgiveness requires action, and reading about the various ends of the world in different scenarios only requires your attention and your energy to invest in hopelessness.

So c'mon... get with the love program. It's provable. Tell someone you love them, they feel great! You tell someone you forgive them - you feel better.

You read about Israel planning a war with Iran, how does that make you feel? Or about the American military moving into Haiti and making it into a large deep sea oil terminal ? Not good.

Bad news sells papers. Avalon seems to be no different. Watch all those really great and earnest posts slide away and drop off into the darkness.

This was one great heart thread I really enjoyed today. When it slips off the radar, will you come back here? Will you remember what was said?

Will we learn to forgive, too? Do you forgive Bush? Do you forgive Blair? Do you forgive the Illuminati?

Only when we can learn to forgive will we move forward, and the duality of right and wrong will become the unity that is love.

K

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Today I have begun my day as I do everyday. Forgiving myself for forgetting.

Soon after I noticed that there was an "issue" within my home due to someone's poor decidsion. I smiled, and forgived them. Then proceeded to do my best to solve the "issue".

Next I knew I was reading some emails that contained some things I did not enjoy. I forgave those involved for their actions, and existence for allowing it to be so. I quickly saw "The Big Picture" so to speak, and found it all wonderful in a grand design.

JUST before this post, I was working with someone on another forum who was hurting themselves, and remaining very close minded and blind to themselves. During the conversation, I began to feel 'anger" and realized I must stop, center myself, forgive them, and send them my love.

This is a never ending process for me, one which I apply to my own life and the universe alike.. Centering.. Remembering.. Forgiving.. Loving.. Being.

In light, of love
Shaynard

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

wow.

Kula that was so moving, it made me cry
tears of joy and love
you truly get it

and Shaynard, Astra, and everyone who has posted
or read with understanding...
you all remind me why I should always battle my ego

my ego tells me not to write posts like this
it told me not to start this thread
that no-one would care
no-one wanted to hear this
that it wouldn't matter
that it wouldn't make a difference

and I always hesitate to say anything
because I don't want it to be about me
but I feel if I don't share a true and intimate part of myself
then how could I ask you to share your love

you've really blown me away Kula...
AMEN my brother, I am so proud to be a part of you!
I AM so proud to be a part of each of you!!!

each and everyone of YOU makes a difference
everyday
with every thought

so please
I beg you
let's tip the scales and create the reality we all want


I love you!

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

You know Illuminate, I really wrestled with this when I first joined this forum... when I made my first posts.

If this Avalon community is really about building new ways and links between people, I should really keep my ego in check and see what is needed rather than bandy my tuppence about.

Because it's easy to see, early doors that there is a counter for how many people read the thread and also how many post to it. So it's easy for my ego to get trapped into the 'how well am I doing?' mode. 'How's my driving?' :original:

And it's quite shocking that the most heartfelt threads of truth disappear without a trace. Anyone remember Jenny32 or whatever she was called? How's she doing now? Put a thread up about something that can never be proven or verified as real, yet contains endless opinions.. and they run for weeks !

It's not what I thought Avalon was about... so I will always support the 'heart threads' Illuminate. It's what I signed up for. Wherever there is genuine interest in changing the world from the inside out, I will be there.

Ooh.. wait , no... my head's getting bigger again.. stop.. ah.. there. Ok.

gotta watch that :wink2:

Thanks for your thread Illuminate, we need that loving vibe here at Avalon sooo much...

K :wub2:

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thank you for your leadership. :wub2:

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Forgiveness is one of my favorite subjects, having recently realized how important it is for my own progress.

I roll these quotes out quite often - forgive me if you read it all before:

In the Law Of One, during an answer to a question about Jesus, "the entity" in the following quote (17.20) Ra stated This set in motion a recurring line of questions and answers that went far through the subsequent Q&A's which I have always found fascinating and illuminating on the subject.

It would seem to me that forgiveness and healing are interrelated to the extent that they are almost synonymous - the one cannot occur without the other.

> can you FORGIVE us

Yes.

A..

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thanks for the wonderful post Anchor...

Very enlightening.

These really are forgiving times!

I wonder how the New Threads board would read at Avalon if we were all enacting forgiveness ? Like this, perhaps ?:

"NASA witholds details of secret base on Mars - I forgive them !"

"Haiti overun by the American Military - I forgive us ! "

"4ft greys stole my grandmother, then made her watch porn - I forgive myself!"

:original:

K

Yes, I forgive myself... maybe that's the highest good we can do for planet Earth. Sod the baked bean collection, forgive yourself today ! lol

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

I forgive myself for the mistakes I will make today.

I forgive those I speak with who are still 'trapped in a box".

I forgive those who are caught by fear and confusion by the events of our world recently.

I forgive myself for "worrying" about it at all, ever.

I love you all and want whats best for you.

I forgive PA for being so active that some very beautiful threads get lost in the process.

I forgive myself for seeing anything as 'wrong" in the first place.


In light, of love
Shaynard

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Thanks for your lead Shanyard.

Yes, I forgive anyone pursuing thoughts of doom and gloom on threads, I see my own anger at my own gullibility and not wishing to be foolish.

I forgive myself for being lazy and finding a virtual world at Avalon easier to fix than my own house and garden and certainly my own life!

I am grateful for everyone's truth, and everyone's lies, we are all one.

K

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

Re: can you FORGIVE us?
 

> forgiveness transcends ego

I see it similarly but I think forgiveness can only happen with each step that you make towards mastering, harnessing and understanding the ego for what it is.

Some refer to this as conquering, I used to think exactly that, but now I don't think its true.

Forgiveness is unconditional love under will - a conscious intent to resolve that which is forgiven.

I don't think it is instant an thing. It isn't in the words "I forgive". It requires a movement and an engagement of every conscious aspect of your beingness.

A very high degree of mastery would be required to simply say "I forgive you" and that be done completely.

I once forgave a man who stole money from me in the form of unpaid business invoices - I thought I was being clever at the time, I gave up chasing him down and shredded the invoices - I sort of forgave him. This was not an easy process for me and began with me wishing all sorts of nastiness on his business (for which I have no doubt paid a price!!).

Anyway once I let it go, for months I wondered if I had done the right thing - clearly I had resolved the situation or put it behind me - but if I had done it completely then how come I was still being troubled? Eventually I realised I had done the right thing in principle but for the wrong reasons - true forgiveness followed.

Therein I discovered that forgiveness is a process which in our 3D incarnation is more than just a fleeting intent. Full resolution takes time. (Time heals...) However, the better you get and the more detached you can be - the faster and more effective forgiveness will become.

A..