Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

I stumbled across PC a few months back and it literally shocked me with the interviews I watched and read. I've had to come to the realization, if what the whistle blowers on PC are saying is correct, that my world has been literally turned upside down.

However, I consider myself to be a scholar and academic (my schooling taught me this) and I must say that aside from the wonderfully fascinating interviews that are on PC, I don't see much in the way of hard evidence. Evidence meaning, documents, photos, leaked footage, letters, artifacts, etc.

I understand it is not the responsibility for PC to come up with evidence. However, it bugs me, nags me, and pesters me, that nearly all of the whistle blowers on PC don't produce hard evidence of any kind. If you've ever been to another credible site, Wikileaks, you know the type of hard evidence that I'm talking about. The evidence on Wikileaks is free for download by all to analyze, read, and interpret.

I understand a certain element of faith and trust must be involved here but there has to be more than just some guy/gal SAYING something unbelievable. TALKING about some super secret stargate buried in a pyramid or some ancient colony on Mars that has been existing for millenia sounds interesting but I'm not convinced.

So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

blurring ufo photos and videos, that´s all the evidence there is..... funny, isnt it?.

Conspiracy theory is about gullibility, like any other religion. as a matter of fact is about connecting dots to make you think there is indeed a conspiracy goin on. It seems, but, Maybe, or maybe not.

It SHOULD be the responsability of Camelot to come up with evidence to back up its claims that this world is so screwed up. However, it fails, as any other website pretending so.


So, in the end, this conspiracy theory trend seems to be a conspiracy in itself: the conspiracy of apathy; they astonish you to make yourself so overwhelmed that you dont move a fingertip to change anything, just devouring the tons and tons of info available on the internet to make you entertained, because that´s the trap for those more "intelligent" than the average, more "awaken", than the average.

They give you the supposed truth that makes you feel as a decent person in this world, even then, you dont even know the reliability of thos supposed truths. The love for truth, truthseeking is a double edged sword.

We are more than just truthseekers. We have an eye we should keep open, more than we ever imagined.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

thera are no proofs
and they are not needed

this isn't a court room

you you disbelieve, just drop your further reading, just like evrything else in life, make your choices..

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

I don't understand quite what you are asking for. Since Camelot is focused on whistleblower testimony, that's what you are going to get. Testimony. It is pretty much up to you to look at it and decide what to accept. Look at what is going on in the news, observe the trends that are happening (e.g., loss of civil liberties, more and more security cameras). Find out who is getting rich from all the junk going on. Use that academic mind.

My interest has been leaning towards the ET presence, and in that regard I highly recommend the book "Disclosure" by Dr. Steven Greer. Also, the books by Richard Dolan on "UFOs and the National Security State" are excellent. If you want to see UFOs for yourself, hook up with CSETI or ECETI. If your own eyes don't convince you, nothing will. If you want to open your mind to other possibilities, the Dolores Cannon books are excellent. Once you see the same answers coming at you from lots of different directions, a better understanding will start to emerge.

The last thing I would do is rely on Camelot as some sort of infallible information source. The sort of stuff you are asking for, documents, photos, leaked footage, can all be faked. There are also numerous clever story tellers out there. There's a reason it's called truth "seeking".

Oh, and most importantly: :welcomeani:

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Books have no answers at all on what people really are asking to see, books are only moneygetters. And many people are really tired of this conspiracy "world" of no proof at all and then leave and move on to center on other more productive tasks on their lives: one believer less each time.

when "blowerwhistlers" focus on getting money to let us know, that it will help the truth get out there, giving just ridiculous excuses to convince us, i think of them very bad.

And many of them focus on money too much for me to accept. Somehow they dont know how to handle the "truth" well untill you give them money to do so.

It´s easy for the stablishment to label conspiracy theorists as nutcracks as often as they want to. So its like those labeled ones serve a major purpose they aren´t aware of.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

if it doesn't ring true to you, just give it a miss..you don't have to read what you don't believe..

nobody is charging you to read Camelot .Nobody is charging you to air your opinion here either. it's all on a take it or leave it basis.

best wishes

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Neither do internet forums. I don't know why anyone would waste their time on one. :zip:

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

That´s not what i wanna emphasize. Did you got the point of my message?.

It´s not about mental ringings, that´s for sure....:smoke:

The world of ringings is another history, im talking about hardcore objetive reality. Not intuition. We have to be careful on how we use our intuition, not to let it cloud our entire mind on it´s behalf. Just be balanced.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Where is the hard evidence that there are no unidentified flying objects, no extraterrestrials, no spirits, no souls, etc? Someone please tell us gullible folk what's really going on in this world and universe. Inquiring minds want to know. Give it your best shot!

:original:Namaste:original:

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

the absence of evidence, it´s not the evidence of it´s absence, yeah, im aware. But, if you choose either side you are gullible.

From my perspective, humilty is the best answer to our situation in the cosmos. So we can feel better what is goin on.

You know something?, we have to feel ourselves tiny, to perceive the grandeur of what´s around us.

And, the truth be told, we are VEEERY tiny, very tiny.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Going inward toward infinitely small, tiny.

The numerous whistleblowers and then some hard evidence (such as http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm) is utter evidence (to me)
that we are all mind controlled, THE biggest issue of all.

Valid question your thread. Pertinent, grounding!
I've invested a great deal of time (and money) researching links...
and getting not much of anywhere.... but as I've said before,
it IS entertaining.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see"

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Leunamros, I couldn't agree more. It is funny. Reminds me of the Sasquatch myth. The only "proof" we have is a 35mm film video from two guys who supposedly spotted one in California in the 60's.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

in response to Leunamros

No i didn't quite get your point, i still don't, but for what concerns your comment above, i can only say: speak for yourself. some of us may not feel so tiny at all at all at all!I think we are much greater than the society have us believe.
from a position of minuteness - what your aspirations can be?

i get the sense that we are born to feel great about ourselves.
just curious - what is it that makes it feel good and/or and/or make any sense and/or know more while feeling tiny?

best wishes

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

There really isn't any which more or less forces you (unless you aren't concerned with the truth of a given matter) to research the "whistle blower" or "witness" as throughly as possible in an attempt to assess their veracity. In doing so you'll get a good indication I think, of just how probable any story they might tell would be.

Good luck.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

I for one search for the truth from an inner source. If something rings true for me than that is my truth. The whistle blowers are bringing forth their own truth from their own experiences. Take what you like and leave the rest. I like to keep an open mind. I don't believe everything that is presented. I do really appreciate Kerry and Bill's summaries because they help me connect the dot's.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

There are official documents that, seems to prove the existence of some alien intervention, but, even then, i dont get the thing i wanna get: hardcore evidence; Greer hasn´t done that yet to the point i dig it with my limited intelligence. One document.... means nothing, just a paper that says something.... you buy it or not.

Look at the Gary Mckinnon testimony... seems credible, and all that, the guy is suffering, facing the threat of prison and all that... but, even in those hard circumstances, im not convinced. No proof at all of anything, he saw some names in a computer, some bunch of words, bunch of words, that compromised his legal liberty.

The punishment he receives now is for violating a law of privacy, not for discovering there are aliens out there...

I think, im convinced there is some external intervention here but i can´t figure out it´s nature, that´s all.

It´s about that whenever you want to travel around everything that it is, that it seems to be, or that is yet created to be, in my own opinion, you have to use paradoxes as the fuel.

Humans here in this planet are trapped because they need a father to use as an excuse to refuse their own power.

They feel ashamed of what they are: beings more powerful than the more powerful being they have ever imagined.

If you wanna really feel the love the universe has to offer you, let it embrace you, as it has to be bigger than you in your mind. BUT, sadly, you have to see something that convinces you of that, really, you have to see real hardocre evidence, or you will dismiss all of this.

I didnt have found any technique to do this, as it seems there isn´t anyone to do such a thing. I have only realized we are pathetic beings, and that, it all starts from there. From stopping being so sophisticated, and just more human, vulnerable, mortal, lovely, only under those critical conditions.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

I think the questions you ask about the lack of "hard" evidence is a normal one. You have to remember where you are though and maybe ask a bit differently.

I have lurked on many different forums on my quest for gnosis and these posts are always generally the same. I would suggest to you my friend that you ask these normal questions during your development in a more thought/ heart filled way. There are many great minds on this forum more so than any other forum like this (which is why I decided to settle in here), many of these members have been working on themselves for years, have studied and read everything we can get our hands on and have meditated on our findings. The "truth" the "hard evidence" is within you. If it does not resonate than it will in time.

The lack of evidence to the contrary of the claims expressed in this forum and others like it, can be viewed as evidence itself. An open and compassionate heart will lead to an open and compassionate mind and that brother is the key.

We have all been indoctrinated our entire lives to believe that the World runs a certain way. Breaking down those barriers provides the path to the evidence you seek. As those barriers fall, more questions will be answered, but even more will be asked.

It is a wonderful journey, I wish you well brother.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

in response to LEUNAMROS

I think, im convinced there is some external intervention here but i can´t figure out it´s nature, that´s all.

You put it you are CONVINCED - how can that be when you insist on hard proof? What's your hard proof that makes you CONVINCED? Just curious...
Again< I am not so sure what point are you trying to make..but if it is about feeling ashamed for beiing human - plese speak for yourself..I certainly don't feel like it..and we don't know about other people..when making general, sweeping statements just do so in your own name..

best wishes

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

i insist on asking for hard proof, and im not ashamed on being convinced there seems to be external intervention... that´s my part on being gullible.

At least, it seems, after profound study on how the humans are, under my opinion, i think there are external influences, or, there are humans that know, light years ahead of you all, what we are, and use that to persuade all of you to believe you are an slave inside a matrix of control.

PERSUADE.


You are now hosts of a body, so astonishing, you could die of it; death by astonishment, sounds cool, isn´t it?..

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

do you not count yourself as one of us?

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Im just talking objetively. You can ask in a clearer way about what you wanna know. I feel convinced because my heart tells me so, but.... that´s not entirely valid, you know; it´s just the 50%.

I ask for the other 50%, what the hell.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Quote:

Im just talking objetively. You can ask in a clearer way about what you wanna know.

it's probably best for me to pull out of this excnhange..I fail to understand what are you objective about ..

all the best in you quest, whatever it may be

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Hallo Ruach, I can imagine your bewilderment and wondering about evidence of what's being presented on Project Camelot. My suggestion is, to treat this intake of information similar as to digesting food. Many aspects of this kind of information needs to be processed by your whole being, not only the mind. I don't mean to say that you have to accept all this as truth, there's as many interpretations of truth as there are facets on a crystal. By looking for different sources, like the James Wingmaker material, the writings of Zacharia Sitchin, Barbara Hand Clow, The Law of One, which is published on David Wilcocks website, the Flower of Life material, Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Maurice Bucke 1901, to name a few, you will be able to discern for yourself. And time will learn. The first moment in my life when I was confronted with the realisation that things were not as I believed they were, I was bewildered and exited too, as you are now I believe. This goes for every human being that is awakening. First there's unbelief and fear, than anger, than action by taking responsibility for yourself as an awakened You. So, go easy on yourself and eat 1 spoonful at a time. Blessed be, Marian.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

im open to any questions about me, no problem man. Hope you are not rude doing so...

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

All I have is the evidence of my eyes. I know what I saw. Other people have seen the same things with me. Some of these things have been captured on video. There is a DVD with Greer's new book "Contact - Countdown to Transformation". I was present for one of the sightings on that DVD. I'll be the first to say that if you are of a skeptical bent, then these videos won't be convincing to you. Video just doesn't capture the full impact of the first hand experience.

If you have seen such things first hand, if you have seen an intelligent reaction to your thoughts manifested as a display in the sky, sometimes rather close up, below cloud cover, then it makes a major impact. I have a history of such sightings, where the intelligence I am interacting with shows a memory of past interactions. Do I absolutely know who or what it is making these displays? No. But, I'm darned sure they're not from around here, and I am in telepathic contact with them. 99.99999999....% of the universe is extraterrestrial, so I don't have a hard time with the concept that something could be of extraterrestrial origins. Call it interdimensional if you like, it's still not from around here.

I've studied T. Townsend Brown enough to know that our understanding of physics is incomplete and field propulsion is indeed possible. Plus, I've seen what those guys can do up there. That's some hot piloting. I've looked at various esoteric energy device and recognized common threads in the ones that work, enough to convince myself there is something to it. You can't just look at one video, or one observation of something weird. Like many things it's a matter of fitting puzzle pieces together and only keeping the parts that fit.

Once you begin to understand what they are capable of, then some of the more far out parts of certain experiences, like passing through walls, can be recognized as just a capability of a very advanced technological race with high intelligence and a higher level of consciousness.

I've met a number of people who have seen much, much more than I have. Because of my own experiences and my impression of what kind of people they are, I'm inclined to believe them.

I don't offer proof, only my opinion that there are ETs visiting the earth, and the one's I'm familiar with are very generous about showing up when I ask. They've even shown up to cheer my up when I'm down. Make of it what you will. You can see for yourself if you are sufficiently motivated to seek the experience.

His books and websites do contain some of the things you are asking for - documents, memos, photos, videos. I would say these constitute evidence, not "proof". Even in science, a theory is not "proven". Experimental evidence is accumulated and a theory is eventually accepted or not, but it is an inductive process and there is no such thing as absolute certainty.

If you want to look into a case which is rather well documented, I highly recommend looking into the Phoenix Lights. Decent photos, credible investigator (Dr. Lynn Kitei), lots of corroboration. One thing to remember is that if even one of thousands of documented UFO cases is true, then they exist and they can get here.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

When I go to my farm, on a clear night there are millions and millions of stars in the sky.

I think that makes me tiny.

That puts me in my place.

I think I get where you are coming from (I mean this in more than one sense by the way).

A..

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

the last time i felt tiny was so gross i can´t share it here.

but it made me remember, a little, at least.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Good question Rauch and a totally valid and well expressed one i thought.
I have often asked myself the same thing. There are many methods of obtaining a truth that sits well with you, some good ones are mentioned here.
Research if you know how and have the resources ( i don't ), use your gut feeling/heart/intuition. A good point was made here about different sources sending the same messages. This has been happening a lot to me lately, pieces of the jigsaw finally coming together.
I don't think there is such a thing as 'A' definitive proof though. My truth or validation requirements might be more or less than yours. I think the truth is a place we settle on alone.

You ( your higher self ) allegedly already knows the truth. The soul speaks to us using the vehicle of experience and feelings as words are the most misinterpreted form of communication. So, if something feels right to you then it often is right or true.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

hello rauch,i guess the only way you will get any hard evidence is if you see something undeniable yourself,for someone to have an experience is the only way they would really believe these things.the cia and other factions are
extremely good at disinfo/covering up ect..although i would have thought myself some undisputeable evidence should have turned up by now....

i have seen ufo craft close up on two occasions,thats why i found my way to this forum,if i had not had any experiences,then i would probably not
be interested in ufos e.c.t at all,or would probably be asking for more proof as you yourself are.


bottom line, you know things arn,t right in the world ,thats why your here looking for possible answers...

a.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

I've really enjoyed reading all these posts. Again, my goal is to think critically about this issue and to analyze it at every angle however hard it may be. Let me also say that I do not, under any circumstances, discount anyone's experiences related to UFO/ET phenomena. I myself have seen a UFO. I'm just trying to get at the root, I suppose, of the "how" and the "why" we all believe what we believe.

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe. But for the rest of us in the middle, we continue to discriminate, research, learn, and explore this subject without bias or assumptions.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

People can and do change. I offer myself as Exhibit A. Until about two years ago I was interested in the UFO phenomenon but had never seen anything sufficiently convincing to make me take it seriously. I ran into the Disclosure Project which convinced me their might be something to it, and eventually went to CSETI training and saw for myself. I now have ongoing contacts. There's really no belief involved in that aspect of things. It happens. It's repeatable, and others can see it. On the spiritual side, it was a drastic 180 degree turnabout, from hard core atheist and materialist to, well, something different. A little bit rough on me and those around me. It's still feels like it's just the start of a long process of growth.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

But ETs still exist despite all the arguments above, why not ask them to provide us with some hard core proofs and why they don't do it..

Is it maybe that those who've seen them do not require more proofs :original:

There's lots of people who have seen 'something ' already, few who had seen solid object and are 100% sure it was not of earthly origin.

Some of those who are 'abuctees' too would tell you that what they had seen was very solid and real.

It's not easy to believe it all without own experience. I was very skeptical towards this subject , especially as it carried huge stigma of insanity ,
before I knew and had seen it's real .

It's transcending our reality and not always fitting to it as we 'd need, many ways..

Ufologists can be fooled too but most I've observed are hard core skeptics .

The difficulty as I can percieve it is that we'd need to deploy the best of our human capacities to do more research in to the phenomenon of ET contact.

Love and respect

A

:trumpet:

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Jnana, what do you mean by on going contact? Can you elaborate?

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

EST: 12 billion Galaxies and climbing (as they find more) Each Galaxy: 10 billion stars+ and counting, this Universe alone, Many Astro Physicist are now saying 'Mutiverse's, floating around what they call the 'BULK' like soap bubbles, if you will, Then we take into account the highly plausable multi dimensional theory(no 'hard' evidence as yet) and suspected to be infinate numbers of these, as with Multiverse's...

Logic, tells me we are not alone, Fractal science show's us the Macro/Micro self simulating model, each part is the same as the whole.

For me, I don't need hard evidence, The above mentioned is a good place to start to ponder its magnificants as Im sure you do. I kinda like not knowing it 'ALL'...:thumb_yello:

Peace

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

_______________________________________

:wall::wall::naughty::lmao:
Bingo!!
__________________________________________

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

A combination of telepathic contact and sightings. I don't get that much information out of the telepathic contact - occasionally a confirmation for something I'm thinking. I feel that I'm better at sending than receiving so sometimes the confirmation is by way of a physical display in the sky. After a while you figure out what the various "gestures" mean (lines drawn in the sky in various ways). I even suggested one for "no" and they started using it. Most of my sightings are in response to a request. Occasionally they will just show up when I step outside and show me something. These are usually the most interesting. This happens as often as weekly, usually less frequently. If I haven't seen them for a while I will request a sighting and they almost always oblige. This all started with my first CSETI training a little over a year ago. I'm still working on closer contact, seeing the beings, better contact in meditation, etc. Maybe in time. The closest so far has been an amazing disk of light about 100 yards away at treetop level on a foggy morning. Most recent sighting was about a week ago - a teardrop shaped craft streaking across the sky.

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

Could we all agree that remaining detached and constructively critical is a good thing? The ability to ask the right questions in the right way...may be more important than any conclusions reached. I do voluminous questioning and speculating on this site...some of which makes me very uncomfortable. The proper process of evaluation and decision making...may be the most important lesson we can learn from our participation in a controversial site such as this. I call this 'Thought Triage'. Unfortunately...I'm not very good at it yet. I'm too emotional and insecure.

:original:Namaste:original:

Re: Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?
 

That's it. Some come here with their own living evidence I believe and they too keep asking questions. Some may have answers to one or two important questions your inner self-evolution needs to know, right now.
Seek the answers in the sky, in thy self, all around, maybe on forums as well as they too are part of the whole,
quite a unique international gathering without bounderies.
We take our freedoms here for inborn and granted but this is not what is happening in the world around.
We learn what to do with newly acquired knowledge.

Why do we only need to speak about it..

I'm sometimes more curious about those whose interests in anything seem to be so cut n dry, cool and impersonal, smooth like a snake that passes through everything untouched, they hardly can teach us anything,
they are just collectors of a knowledge without knowing.
They still do exist, beware of them.

We speak of our inner quest yet do we know who is ever listening to us.
We touch the space but do we touch the ground..

Originally, there come people WITH proofs. Followed by army of those without proofs who also NEED to SEE it .

Hugs

Agape