Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

YYMind, take a long breath and breath in love.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Uncle J,

I teach the original form of Tai Chi known as the Eight Treasures developed by the ancient Taoists over 5000 years ago and breathing is a core component to the style.

Consider my last post an exhale from deep within and a release of Chi.

Do you have anything to add to the thread as a moderator?

Thanks for the advice!

Peace,
YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

YinYangMind,

My understanding comes from the items I quoted.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Seashore,

How does the information you quoted lead to your understanding? That level of detail is not obvious or apparent.

The bigger question is why the supposed financial info on Deagle is constantly referred to when Clif not only does not seem to care about it other than clarifying that he did not do what Bill accused him of, which Bill admits his mistake, rather, Clif has put forth very specific information regarding the content which Deagle espouses regarding the Pole Shift, Chinese Robots, etc.?

The financial issue seems to be being used to avoid the real issue that Clif (and many others on this fora!) raise regarding the content and validity of Deagle's claims and his believability.

Many here have expressed serious doubts about Deagle and the only thing we get from Bill Ryan is that he believes and supports Deagle.

Where's the true objective investigative research?

Why the blind acceptance in the face of so much doubt and facts?

What about the plethora of 'free' information about Deagle (forget the financial stuff!) all over the net?

Why the childish name calling from someone who claims to be a truth seeker and on the path of spiritual growth and enlightenment?

Why the obfuscation and lack of nads to back up the claims?

Why are so many here feeling, seeing and thinking the same, asking for input and clarification and being ignored?

What is behind a now regular pattern of exposed 'whistleblowers', disagreements & fueds between Bill and Kerry and their 'interviewees/whistleblowers'?

How should those who have followed and supported PC/PA over the years react to these now regular missteps, blunders and falsehoods?

Why doesn't Bill or Kerry or both address these festering boils on the body of work they have worked so hard to build?

Immature and petty, yes...professional, no.

'Know what you believe and believe what you know'

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

seashore
If it was posted on the internet for everyone to see it's NOT PRIVATE anymore it's public!
Clif did what PC should've done long time ago, check a notorious liar and false prophet.

gibonos

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

In reference to your questions highlighted in orange below, if you want answers from Bill, he is back on the forum after not being here for 1 year, and limiting his question/answer sessions to this thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...936#post200936
Bill Ryan's thread
where he is now on page 16 of 26.
Feel free to copy your questions and critiques over to that thread.

He has stated several times that he will not be reading other threads looking for questions. Kerry is not engaged in answering these questions at this time. She is focusing the audio and video productions and on Project Light Warrior.

You can view only the posts where Bill answers these questions here:
http://fredsitelive.com/personal/Cur.../BillRyan.html

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

:original: Good question!

I'm not going to debate that here but my hat's off to you for your comeback!!

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Once again, why is this supposed publishing of Deagle's financial issues the standard response to the questioning? I certainly haven't seen any of it posted here or anywhere else for that matter.

What about the real issues of Deagle's questionable statements that Clif has eluminated?

Simultaneously perplexing & frustrating & apparently stuck on the river denial...

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Clear, short & to the point!

Thanks gibonos!

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

I have the zipped file containing the emails/data/programs and have reviewed them thoroughly.

The data was gathered from several sources covering more than 10 years and stored in a directory labeled FOIA2009 which stands for "Freedom Of Information Act 2009".

Add the additional possible perspective that those emails were 'leaked' and then ask the same question...good or bad guy(s)?

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Seashore,

How in the hell do you come to the conclusion that gibonos personal opinion is unrelated to the questions presented???

This entire issue is about Deagle's believability and credibility coupled with Ryan's motherhen reaction!

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

This is the core of the dispute that started on the "Bill Ryan's thread" when Bill Ryan answered my query concerning the allegation that was made by an Avalon member on another thread that Clif High believes Dr Bill Deagle is a paid disinfo agent.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

okey guys put down your knifes

gibonos

ps. thanks yinyang for taking my side, but everyone has the right to think differently, that's the whole purpose of perspective, that's how I learn from other people

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Me too! :original:

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Thanks Karen,

These and other questions have been on that thread on the pages you refer to for the last 3+ weeks, #479 , #483 , #579 with no response from Bill, hence the posts here where at least other members are discussing it.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

That gave me a nice little chuckle gibonos! Thanks!

Logic has no sides and that's all I'm interested in. If something stated seems directed & sharp it's usually the result of specificity and facts, no personal attack with any objects intended, just pondering and pursuing logic supported by facts.

Your side was 'logical' ergo, support was by default.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

So what are your thoughts regarding the multitude of posts that have arisen as a result of the 'core of the dispute' which have not focused on the financial, but rather the substance, and that fact that they have been continuously ignored?

What say you?

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

YinYangMind,

I have not focused on anything else besides what I've posted.

I had to investigate your post quite a bit to find the material I needed in order to piece together a sequence of events that made sense to me. I ended up going to the "Bill Ryan's thread" and hitting Control Find on every page just to find the post originally posted by Petem which starts off your post #192 on this thread.

I will share with you at this point that I am not a Clif High fan. My intuition tells me he is ego-motivated.

I feel that Bill Ryan was in error in his handling of the Jane Burgermeister matter and have stated that on his thread. I still have some unanswered questions posed to him about that issue on his thread, which I hope he will find time to answer. However, my intuition tells me that Bill Ryan's heart is in the right place and I am indebted to Project Camelot for the contribution they are making.

I hate it when Dr Bill Deagle goes into his religious talk, but my intuition tells me that he also has his heart in the right place, and I admire his stamina and devoted concern for humanity.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Whatta pile of CR@P. 9 pages high, too.

I thought Cliff High already had a website.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Ahh...the fact that 'you are not a Clif High fan' explains alot, thank you for adding that tidbit!

I too get nauseated at Deagle's religious pronouncements which can be at odds with his psuedo science information causing conundrums to fly!

Agree with your thoughts on Bill's handling of JB. What about the handling and issues surrounding all the other ex-whistleblowers/interviewees that have continually popped up over the last year? I agree that Bill seems to have a good heart, but the recent actions have put that into question.

Regardless of your dislike for Clif, have you considered or looked into his research regarding the substance of Deagle's claims? There's some very interesting and objective (IMO) data there that raises serious questions that many other's here have decerned/intuited to be dubious at best.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Well there's an interesting prespective/contribution to the discussion!

Thought...if this issue was addressed clearly and professionally in the first place, this thread probably wouldn't exist, but since neither has been done, ergo it exists.

If you carefully read the main theme of this thread, you'll find that it has two components...1. The pitifully poor handling of this issue by Bill and 2. The credibility of Deagle and support thereof by Bill.

There are many who share the same perspective/concerns here if you care to read them.

Do you have anything to add to those two points?

Clif does have his own site, but this issue moved beyond Clif long ago.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

I have not put a lot of thought into this.

In general, I think that the complexity of the issues Project Camelot tackles is enormous, and I don't judge them.

No.

I'm not interested in Clif's research.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

I would like to see more posts of members expressing their perspective on the "State of the Planet" thread.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Cliff High

"To be clear. I did not hire any detective to investigate Bill Deagle. I have never been privy to any personal information about Bill Deagle, nor any information which is not publicly available on the internet. My first contact with Bill Deagle (by phone) was so negatively affecting of the state of my ki that I began my own research into Bill Deagle by the simple expedient of Google. Please note…I do my own research. I did not hire anyone and then ‘set them’ onto Deagle with orders to find ‘stuff that could be used against Deagle”. This is a lie. ********. Let me state that again. The characterizations written by Bill Ryan are false, and offensive.

In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood. "

The above is a quote from Cliff High's original thread.

I find it hard to discern how just a Google search would get anyone on the path to the truth without trying other search engines. Google is not the god of search engines and the results of a search on Google without trying any of the other search engines in not a path to enlightenment, in my opinion.
For example:
http://www.infowars.com/google-and-b...-edmonds-blog/
“Google has worked closely with the governments of the U.S., the U.K., Germany, Japan, and most notoriously China to censor content on its websites. Google works directly with China to filter search results on the Google Chinese search engine concerning the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, sites supporting the independence movements of Tibet and Taiwan or the Falun Gong movement, and other information considered embarrassing or harmful to China’s totalitarian slave masters.”
The above being a quote from the article of the link listed above.
So Cliff put that in your pipe and smoke it!


I’m offended more by your assault on Bill Ryan’s character than anything else. Kerry and Bill are, in my opinion, historians that try to get history as it’s given to them and letting the readers discern for themselves.
I can go on with my assault on your character, but at this time I choose not to because there are more important things to worry about. Man, you got to rein that ego in, it will get you into trouble.
Can you explain this woo-jo concept again to me. I to have had my experiences in Do-jos, but this woo-jo concept seems like some sort of trap to me.
In unity,
Roman
“Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”

:mfr_omg:

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Roman,

Not sure just who you are directing your post to but if it's me, thank you for your input and observation in this matter.

The quote of Clif is accurate. Your opinion of Google and assumption that Clif used only Google for his research are both 'your opinion' and apparently lack any knowledge of Clif's backgound or knowledge. There are multiple search/decision engines/methodolgies available which can turn up large amounts of data on just about any subject/topic/person/etc. Knowing that Clif has been involved with computer technology (hueristics, tele-communications, human factors engineering to name a few) as well as developing sophisticated internet data gathering systems such as his Web Bot Project would indicate that he could probably find whatever he wanted without using Google. In this case, the use of Google, which most casual to intermediate internet consumers would use, turned up very interesting data which anybody could find.

The reference you use regarding the data about government use of Google is a bit lost on me...not sure what your point is, especially about Clif taking a toke on it, and would appreciate clarification which I thank you for in advance!

Your offence at the serious questioning regarding what you refer to as an 'assault on Bills character' is something you should examine. Being offended is a part of life and in my experience reveals issues that one has within one's self that are yet to be dealt with and resolved. They are also usually the result of emotional stagnation which can be difficult to overcome.

Once again, there is a complete lack of addressing the core/key issues that have been raised regarding the conduct of Bill in this matter...and to reiterate so as to be clear, the issue is Deagle's credibility, Bill's unwavering support in the face of hard and alarming data regarding Deagle's claims (NOT HIS FINANCES!) and the way in which Bill has conducted himself in this matter. Throw in the developing pattern of whistleblower fallout over the last year and that translates into wanting to know more about what I and many others here have supported over the years as there seems to be some serious issues at PC/PA.

Will any of you who defend these actions ever address the questions posed? Or will you just blather on about how much you admire and love Bill & Kerry?

Where's the objective, non-biased inquiry? Why get mad at the pursuit of the truth?

Waiting on honest discussion based on facts, not blind emotional stances.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

YinYangMind,
“The quote of Clif is accurate. Your opinion of Google and assumption that Clif used only Google for his research are both 'your opinion' and apparently lack any knowledge of Clif's backgound or knowledge.”
YingYangMind quote above
“In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood.”
Cliff’s quote above
Then why didn’t he mention all these other resources?
I heard him speak on Coast to Coast with George Noory, and liked his talk on his project but I was under the impression that this was for prediction use not to slam peoples work. What’s he going to do next charge people for the dirt he digs up? I’m not irate because of his slamming of Dr. Deagle, but his intrusiveness and slamming of Bill Ryan’s work. Great, now I got Cliffs Web bots running all over my computer. I don’t want them here, but Cliff don’t care about that, his project must go on.

“ The reference you use regarding the data about government use of Google is a bit lost on me...not sure what your point is, especially about Clif taking a toke on it, and would appreciate clarification which I thank you for in advance!”
YingYangMind quote above
I think the Google article speaks for itself.
“So Cliff put that in your pipe and smoke it!”
My quote above
Where did I write take a toke on it? What I meant with my quote was a simple; Think about it.
“Your offence at the serious questioning regarding what you refer to as an 'assault on Bills character' is something you should examine. Being offended is a part of life and in my experience reveals issues that one has within one's self that are yet to be dealt with and resolved. They are also usually the result of emotional stagnation which can be difficult to overcome.”
YingYangMind quote above
Now I’m being Psycho-analyzed because I wrote a statement to defend an Honorable man and a gentleman? Bill has handled himself well with his thread and he explained why he did it. Did any of you read his thread? How did you get I was suffering from ‘emotion stagnation’ out of what I had to write? Cliff or you don’t have no idea what what’s in my heart, unless Clif has developed a Heart bot for that purpose.
“Where's the objective, non-biased inquiry? Why get mad at the pursuit of the truth?”
YingYangMind quote above
I can write that same exact statement about your alleged non-biased inquiry.
In Peace and Unity,
Roman
:smoke:
"Beware of wolfs in sheeps clothing."

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

The issue is so old, so incredibly trivial, and silly.

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Bill has stated several times that he is answering questions in the order asked in the posts to Bill Ryan's thread - and he has only gotten to post #419 - so of course, there is no response yet to 479, 483, and 579 - you are acting like he is ignoring your questions, when so far, no such thing has happened. And what can the other members say to many of your questions which are addressed in Bill's direction? They can speculate and make conjectures - but they cannot answer for Bill. Here's a recent post from Bill which mentions Deagle. And it addresses (I've added orange highlighting) those who think Deagle is disinformation and those who do not like Deagle, and those who have never or who no longer like Kerry and Bill.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...&postcount=624
#624 -

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Roman,

My apologies for misunderstanding your post. I'm apparently beating a dead horse.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Agreed.

Peace,

YinYangMind

Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations
 

Thank you for the post Karen. Bill's statement you highlighted speaks for itself.

Peace,

YinYangMind