Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Restoration of lost Scientology materials complete

By MATT SEDENSKY, Associated Press Writer Matt Sedensky, Associated Press Writer – Fri Jan 8, 5:34 am ET

CLEARWATER, Fla. – More than 1,000 unreleased recordings of lectures by L. Ron Hubbard and reams of corresponding writings have been unveiled in the culmination of a 25-year project to locate, restore and transcribe lost pieces of the Scientology founder's work.

Though sure to be derided by the church's many critics, its followers say the materials amount to an opportunity to deepen understanding of the religion and to release the last known unpublished Hubbard works dealing with Scientology and Dianetics.

"It would be like discovering that Buddha, unbeknownst to anybody, had sat down and wrote down the entirety of his discoveries and it could be verified that he wrote it," said Tommy Davis, the church's top spokesman.

The new materials were announced in a New Year's celebration at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles that was broadcast to churches around the world last week and include 1,020 lectures and hundreds of corresponding booklets from courses and other sessions with Scientology ministers from 1953 to 1961. They include discussions of how Hubbard arrived at the principles of Dianetics and his research on everything from decision-making to personal responsibility.

They were recovered through a painstaking hunt that led members to find tapes and papers in a basement in Wichita, Kan., a storage trailer in Phoenix, and a garage in Oakland, Calif., among other places. Some of the materials were believed to have been lost.

"We've been able to restore lectures we literally never thought would be heard again," Davis said.

The release marks the third and final batch of Hubbard works to be distributed as part of the decades-long project initiated by Hubbard himself but carried out after his 1986 death by the church's current leader, David Miscavige. Releases in 2005 and 2007 included updated versions of 18 basic Scientology books to correct transcriptional errors, as well as hundreds of other lectures given by Hubbard.

"It's so huge for our religion having these materials. It's really a renaissance," said Davis. "It's as if it's a rediscovery of our own scriptures and what they hold and what they mean."

All the materials — contained on 970 compact discs and corresponding booklets in 57 binders — are being shipped out of a Los Angeles warehouse to Scientology churches worldwide. Unlike writings related to upper-level coursework, they are not considered confidential; they are available to those outside the church and members of all levels.

They're also available for sale to members for about $7,500, a price likely to raise some eyebrows, though the church insists no one will be denied access to the materials simply because they don't have the money.

Reading rooms at Scientology centers worldwide, and at its spiritual headquarters in Clearwater, are full of members poring over Hubbard's words, and the founder's quotes are frequently uttered by followers. The publication of Hubbard works, even if they contain just seemingly minor revisions, is of interest to the most devoted Scientologists.

"Scientologists are literalists, fundamentalists in the sense that they take Hubbard's writings as literally true," said David Bromley, a professor of religion and sociology at Virginia Commonwealth University who has written extensively about Scientology.

Founded in the 1950s by Hubbard, a prolific science fiction writer, Scientology teaches followers they are immortal spiritual beings, or thetans, who live on after death. The church says there is a supreme being but its practices do not include the worship of a god.

It has enjoyed worldwide growth and exposure unlike any other new religious movement, but has also been routinely called a cult in which members are scammed and abused. The church claims millions of followers in the U.S. and millions more internationally, though one respected count, the American Religion Identification Survey, reported the estimated number of Americans who identify as Scientologists plummeted from 55,000 in 2001 to 25,000 in 2008. Davis says the survey's number is impossibly low.

___

Church of Scientology: http://www.scientology.org/

American Religious Identification Survey 2008: http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Hi, Barron, yes I saw that this morning. Some good will come out of that for sure. I wonder how much new data is of significant value for further improving scientology technologies? Although the $7500 price tag is elitist imho. In perspective, other religions also extract their 10-20% tithes.

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Hiya.

Yes, very high price tag and that has been one of the church's massive failings since it was taken over some 30 odd years ago -a money making machine charging exhorbitant prices for their courses. And of course, one had to as many of them as necessary in order to get "Clear" and every member had to at least get to "clear"!! Not to mention all the "OT" levels all beyond that too! And of corse these all cost much more money too!!!

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

And, in my experience one of the best, most profitable courses I took was the inexpensive communications course that they offer to newcomers. I actually got raises at work after I took the communications course because people were praising me to my boss for how well I maintained my composure in a stressful situation.

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

In more ways than one going "Clear" seemed to me like a $60k proposition. In the Freezone there is a better way than the Church offers for a price that I can afford. I'm doing it right now. Also, out of the Church I started to stretch and look at other [forbidden] clearing technologies, such as the meridian clearing techs such as EFT, Idenics, Mace Method, PEAT, TM, etc., etc.

However, even if I did someday totally drop the scientology model completely, I still think that Buddha was onto something and there is a distinctive phase shift into exponentiality that we called "Clear", and I postulate it is a universal achievement for all beings in all universes. Yet to be fully tested.

From that point it is probably a more intuitive and individual path because a being presumably would be in better communication between himself and his other "parts", especially what we tend to call here our "Higher Self".

Interesting session today where I helped a being return to the "All that is". I'll have to write it up someday.

blessings,
Gnosis

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Link isnt working for me? :sad:

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Appears the link is broken????

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Bashar: Questioner experiences meltdown in Scientology



I experienced a happy meltdown when I first came into Scientology as I knew nothing I was being confronted with fit into my mental templates about the mind or the spirit, and I knew my life would never be the same again if I followed this path. Definitely pushed my IQ up several notches from the books and lectures (which are all free now).

Wish I had followed it with more personal integrity, but I would still follow it today, only with more personal integrity and outside the formal Church.

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

The Auditor's Code 1954

From Professional Auditor's Bulletin No. 38

1. Do Not Evaluate for the PRECLEAR

"The main difficulty of the preclear is other-knowingness. An auditor auditing a preclear has before him someone whose last stronghold of owned knowingness is his engram bank and various mental phenomena. As much as possible, the preclear should be permitted to discover the answers to this phenomenon through the process of auditing. .... The auditor is working from a body of knowledge as to how all minds and spirits function. ....The auditor should confine himself to giving the proper auditing commands and engaging in enough "dunnage" (extra and relatively meaningless talk) to maintain a two-way communication line.

The early writings were the best :original:

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

A tale of two friends.

I'll begin with a close personal friend of my 1st wife and I. Reserved, brilliant, a person who needed a highly structured life, though he never reveled in it. His ability to see where the planet's dispositions would lead it were truly clairvoyant. 30 years later, his "seeings" are still accurate, and on target.

Sadly, his need for structure, exactness was often carried by him like an open sore. It was there that the C of S sunk their hooks.

A few months later, broke, stressed, he informed them it was time to "take a break". He was in need of some perspective, and... he also needed to make the money flow "back up", if he was to continue. We'd had no contact with him during those months, until his "break".

What followed was the most despicable, systematic destruction of someone's life one could imagine. They attacked through his friends, neighbors, family, even his ability to work. His family with our help, at times, went as far as to move him out of one residence, in the middle of the nite, and relocate him. Rarely did it last 2 weeks, before they had found him again, and the harassment continued.

His "crime"? He needed some space. Had not spoken "against" the org, just needed money, and some time to continue. Their efforts over the next two years made this impossible. To this day I still believe that the C of S was in part responsible for his successful efforts to get away from them forever. Unable to live any form of civil life, he committed suicide.

My friend was not mad, he was driven there, if such a thing is possible. 25 years ago, when this happened, if I could have located the people who had done this, I would have happily sent them along after him.

I don't think I have shared this with 4 people in my entire life, so understand that the subject, and the "Church" (dear god what a name) isn't something I am fond of.
_________________________________________________

I just have to bring up the fact that the practice of calling naysayers "subversives" has got to be the most telling form of self-identifying psychosis available in the English language.

_________________________________________________

I have a friend of some 15 years. I have worked with him professionally off and on. He and I have probably spent 6 - 15 hours every month at each others houses, meals, sporting events, and lots of conversation. He is a degreed physicist, and engineer, I would say he is both intelligent, and honest. A good friend.

Yeah... a Scientologist. He was an auditor for them, in fact, and also shows some skill in what he's called their "touch system" for relieving pain and other things. I must also add that he has no association with the C of S, and has not in the 15 years I've know him. In fact he has never mentioned them at all, only the "process". But, not a meeting goes by where he does not respond, at least twice, with the words, "You know, Ron says that...".

And for 15 years, I have found few premises brought up in this fashion, that I disagreed with, but I have always internally cringed because of my experience with the org.

Yes, 15 years is a long time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Frankly, I've yet seen anything that couldn't be gained through other means. Also, until a post in Bill Ryan's thread, I never looked to "other" orgs who used the LRH stuff, nor knew they existed. I knew many groups existed but most seemed, at quick glance, to be nothing but "protest" or "refusenik" groups, so I had no interest.

So, now I know "something else" ;)
Thanks to Bosr (thank you) I have copies of 20 books, to look through. Perhaps a chance at "getting a bit smarter" on the base subject. Perhaps engage in some deeper conversations with my friend on it.

And perhaps begin a process of separating some knowledge from a disgusting method of using it, and in the process get a handle on some forgiveness.

Thanks for the thread. There's my rant, and rave.

Fred

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Jonathan-I have some experience with the C of S when I lived in L.A.--I took acting classes in the basement of the Hollywood C of S building from someone fairly high in the church. At the time, I was a recent 'est' graduate and follower of Werner Earhart (not knowing then that he'd gotten a lot of his material from LRH), and esties tended to shy away from Scientologists back then. Anyway, the recent interview restimulated my interest in the technology many of my CofS friends were enthused about and I tried to find a book on Dianetics. I wanted to locate a 1950 version to make sure I had one that hadn't been 'altered' as the interview suggested. I found plenty of books, but most were 1990 and later.

I ended up buying Dyanetics that was printed in 1988 and it doesn't mention being 'updated'. It sounded like all the undesirable changes came in in the early 1990's? Is this correct?

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

The worst "alteration" to Dianetics was the padding that the publisher demanded, thus the lengthiness and repetition of the book. I prefer "Dianetics Today" or "Dianetics 55". There is also a short Dianetics picture book and a Dianetics DvD.

My first read was quite revealing because while I was reading about the "reactive mind" I was at the same time seeing it all around me :shocked:

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

My appreciation for auditors, a Ditty:

You got the key to my polarity
You return me to my singularity

Implanters are left holding the bag
- follow the bouncing ball -
Hey, fellas, anyone for a game of tag!

Once thought, twice thought, thrice thought
- "What's that - that- that ?" -
Blackness backdrops a glimpse of truth long fought.

You got the key to my polarity
You return me to my singularity

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

New Scientology Materials link, in English and German. Has a good "Search" function too.
http://www.stss.nl/

I have the original small books and am going through them again. Best stuff is pre to early 50's.

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

What I particularlly appreciate about scientology materials is that all theory is tied in with actual processes one can run to a good result, and there is a whole buffet of processes and once one understands the theory behind the processes it is a matter of deciding which processes to attend to.

There is a bulk of actual "Doingnesses" balanced with the teaching.

Don't like walking to that wall process? No problem, here are five others....

It is really written for someone who wishes to be his own spiritual guru and/or be a spiritual coach for others.

EFT, PEAT, and Transcendental Meditation are modern-day supplements. The process that I work with, R3X, is a ramped up version of Dianetics.

cheers!
Gnosis

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Thanks for these links and information Gnosis. :)
I've been watching the older interviews and clearing seminars with LRH. I have also read a few of the documents, I will be reading more for sure.
What struck me about the LRH method (I can't speak for the modern day official scientology) was that it is Alchemy 100%! That is what Ron was teaching without a doubt. Everything is the same, including the steps, and the goals... The only difference was that Ron updated the terms big time so that they made much more sense to the average person, as alchemy, especially during the middle ages, was extremely hard if not impossible to make sense of without certain keys. I was actually quite struck by the similarity between the two! :thumb_yello:

I also believe that this may have had something to do with Rons eventual downfall. As he underestimated his enemies. I'm not sure that Ron himself knew of the similarity, and that the people he was really working against knew well his science already, from a slightly different perspective. Anyways thats just a thought I had, maybe Ron did know and indeed maybe alchemy is where he originally got his knowledge from.

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Very interesting and I wonder what off-planet society introduced it here? On this planet, what was the original source of alchemy? I'm asking because I am aware that Ron Hubbard did dig into the Vedas which I understand is the most ancient extant spiritual manual. I thought alchemists worked with actual elements?

Some people have said that it is re-worded magic.

I was with Hubbard last lifetime when he and Parsons (in Pasadena) were calling up the demi-god Pan. Aleister was concerned that these two newbies might really mess themselves up. Did they?

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Know one knows for sure the original source of Alchemy, its beginnings are shrouded in mystery. We do know that it dates back to at least Ancient Egyptian times from their glyphs alone, but before that it is not known.. at least in the 'public' spectrum.

Alchemists did work with elements, as they believe strongly in the above/below so that if they understood nature it will help them understand themselves. Alchemy was a science of the mind and spirit more then anything though, just like Scientology.

Here is a video that gives a quick over view of the alchemical process..
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...69191085492326
The steps start at roughly the 11:30 mark if you wanted to zoom ahead, its quite interesting. This is of course just a quick overview the study it self is much much more in depth.

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Re: Camelot interview with Dave Tops
 

Sunnyrap: I read the interview and thought that I'd like to have a jolly good look into that....Found the book, ordered it and then read the wikipaedia entry...

Anyway the Tops interview implied that the book has been constantly upadated, and that the earlier pressings were slightly more intact. A local 2nd hand bookseller website led me to biblio.com where they had a fine selection of earlier editions. Ultimately it was an issue of choose how much I wanted to pay and what condition I wanted it to be in. There were early seventies ones at a few dollars. I got a nineteen-fifty pressing at a modest price. Green hardcover, a few stains and a free antique catalogue card.

Good luck
Gg

Re: Camelot interview with Dane Tops
 

Re: Camelot interview with Dane Tops
 

The early 50's book I'd bought unfortunately was damaged in the post so the seller LUCKILY sent me a 2007 copy of the 'same' which I'd bought for £38!!!! I've just sent it back and plan to get a full refund...

I'll check out biblio.com though, thanks.

Re: Camelot interview with Dane Tops
 

I have the original "Dianetics, The Original Thesis", copyright 1951, and
"Dianetics 55!", copyright 1955. I prefer them to the 1950 "Dianetics".

However, the DvD that shows a play-acted Dianetics session.

However, I also just recorded from SKYPE using "Pamela" a live session. Barring any unforeseen technical barriers, I should be able to send it to anyone who requests it.

Seeing a live session might help one to better understand what they are reading about Dianetics.

Just let me know if you wish me to send it to you.

cheers!
Gnosis

Re: Camelot interview with Dane Tops
 

Hello Gnosis; Do you know if the "original Dianetics (1951) " Is available on the net as a PDF ?

If possible, can you send me that live session you mention ?
greetings, Oedilroed