Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

Sorry Im not a writer by any means but Ill see what I can do.

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

Edited by whitecrow

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

I feel comfortable in any religion only if they belief that mankind is a race that has to grow towards humanity, towards love and respect for al creatures in the univers, that we are a part of the energie/love or whatever, that we can called god, the source of all that exist, in any case is one "thing", not two, so that it is possible to experience that all that exist is one "thing", and that we are each other, that we feel ourselves a droplet in the ocean we are.
For me the goal/aspiration of a religion is to experience the ocean that we are, that we are in a matrix/illusion of separation.
And this is what Jezus said, what Budha said and others, but I don't feel comfortable in a church or in the so called "'Cristianity" or temple that worship any other creature as higher. But I feel comfortable with persons that in a way worship everything because of its origin/source.
I also belief in a feeling of surrender that might help you to experience the oneness/unity of everything. Therefor I think it can help as a tool to bow for something. And I have experienced that there can be even an image/sculpure of a goddes that is in some way a residence for a being that experience the oneness it is, that this being or energie can help you to let go the feeling of the droplet/separation. I have experienced that one can bow for anything in a pure surrendered state to experience the oneness we are.
So I believe that any religion or faith, if its practiced pure in a state of surrender and longing for the experience of the oneness, that it helps, but I think the best way to experience the oneness we are, is to be in the now and here, without any thought and also practice meditation.

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

well I feel somewhat responsible too for the derailment of this thread, yet I think that if you bring any religious topics to a forum it will happen anyway. we had a good 2 or 3 pages though and thats great!

so in the spirit of this thread I will post my background as well:

my religious background is a rather adulterated one. My first exposure was southern baptist but only briefly yet I remember I was not comfortable and really didn't get the importance for all this religious mumbo jumbo

then I ran into one of the rainbow new age religions promoting ascended masters with Hindu, Buddhist, and new age color, overtones. I was also studying kung Fu by then and meditation became a key element in my life. This was the Elizabeth Clare Prophet stuff at church Universal and Triumphant place in California.

The exposure to Hindu and Buddhist ideologies led me to study them in depth and the kung fu led me to Taoism, Confucianism, and Shinto. Now I didn't stay in these any longer than maybe 3-4 years so I cannot say I am an expert on the inner teachings.

Of course Christianity was something I did alot of work with, and studied the church histories which led me to various religious orders. Gnostic Christianity, several forms of orthodoxy with an emphasis on eastern orthodoxy, particularly Russian interpretations. I worked with the Catholic ideologies and then studied the differences between many of the protestant sects, with an emphasis on the Eucharistic compatible orders. I also studied the apophrical texts as well but only in a comparative manner. Some may not know it but reincarnation has been alive and well in Christianity from the earliest days.

I later studied Calvinism, Lutherism, the Watchtower Society(Jehovah Witness) and Mormonism in depth and eventually started looking into any religion that came my way that I showed an interest in including Scientology (read Dianetics in the 80s and just a bit of info here and there on the net). The only religion I haven't studied in depth is Islam (just a smattering of the Koran) and only a small working knowledge of fundamental Judaism centered around kabbalistic practices and alchemy. I checked out the sacred texts to a degree like the enuma elish, vedic texts, bhagavagita.

I was always a rebel in any of these religions and enjoyed challenging their views that I found narrow and short sighted. I was heavy into liturgy and had a fascination concerning end time prophecy. I have also read up on the satanic church, temple of Set, secret occult orders and various forms of magic that was not pretentious, like the greater and lesser keys of Solomon, withcraft (lucifarian and wicca) , Egyptian book of the dead, and researched madame blavatsky and alister crowley a bit.

I also have my eye open to some of the new churches that are popping up and have been over the last 20 years but most are saying the same thing, just a mildly different approach. I was obsessed for sure but I never became a fundamentalist, nor did I endorse only one religion as all have merit.

Some may say they are traps, but traps are everywhere in every religion because it isn't the information that is the trap but the viewpoint of the practitioner. They are paths, and there are many paths and I believe none have the advantage over the other. I don't believe in "one truth", and I think those that do believe this have shut themselves in a box, a box they will eventually evolve away from which can be a painful experience for the highly devoted.

My friend who was going through all of this with me for about 20 years, eventually got his masters and a doctorate degree in new testament theology with a minor in the history around the time, or something like that, to be honest the name of the degree such a long name I cant even remember it. needless to say he is one of the "scholars" so I feel lucky to have someone i can call whenever I want to pick his brain and run thoughts by him. But I have to slap him after the third hour of his lectures to my simple questions. he knows, well he had to learn Greek, Sanskrit, Latin, and some other language I can't remember. Funny enough he is no longer Christian either due to his career studies and the info he learned working through school.

I am now divorced from any established religion or messiah figure and that happened long before Zeitgeist as there have been others who came out with doubts long before the movie or acharya s. Some may not want to hear this but there is a high percentage of scholars who have found there is little to no historical evidence for Jesus, and there is a spiritual crisis going on at the very core of Christianity itself. You wont hear this from the establishment because these scholars have devoted their life to their profession and wont do this publicly for the obvious reasons.

paths rock...and I try not to point a finger at a person and say "your path is flawed and you are going to SUFFER if you do not do what I do" and anyone who does this is a hypocrite to their own faith.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Romans 14:13

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1

Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. John 8:15

of course, there are tons of different "interpretations" on these verses alone based on contextual references but reguardless I think they and about another 50 or so biblical verses support the idea of keeping your self-righteous beliefs from interfering with someone else's spiritual progression and let God sort it all out

IMHO if someone or some religion professes that they have THE "one and only truth"

Run!

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

I can't answer for ctophil, but...

'evil' = 'live' spelled backwards because the same energy from the same source is involved in both types of expression. Evil is negative energy expressed through the distorted lens of the outer mind and emotions. These expressions of the lower-ego are vibrationally 'dead' because the energy is trapped in the form of a lower vibration and cannot rise into it's essential spiritual vibration until it is transformed by the inner-Christ.

As we transmute the mental/emotional egoic lens (by entering the "inner-kingdom" or realising the "inner- Christ") we can, like Jesus, be the 'open door' for the flow of spiritual energy from the inner- Christ to the outer world. Our expressions are then spiritual and therefore 'alive' not 'evil'.

That's why Jesus said: "I AM the open door which no man can shut"

And why Moses said: "I have set before you Life and Death. Choose Life!"


It's not too dificult to come to that conclusion but it's a misunderstanding.

The slaughter of man by man and even the ferocity of mother nature are created by the mind of man. The scriptures often reveal the karmic law by having the 'LAW' speak in the first person. That is, the 'LORD' is the 'LAW' in it's impersonal aspect.

"I will write my law on their inward parts
I shall be their God (within them) and they shall be my people."

When we violate the law of love in our interactions with each other the karmic law returns our expressions to ourselves. Whether we see it as the LORD delivering his judgement or the impersonal working of the LAW it's the same. A spiritual teaching sometimes accomodates man's misapprehensions and sometimes it challenges them. Over a long period of time the same teaching is presented in different ways (in the bible and the religious texts of different cultures).

Karma = "Whatsoever a man shall sow, that shall he also reap"

We have freewill. We can use it to grow spiritually by serving others. Or we can selfishly violate others inalienable rights to life, liberty and happiness. It's our choice. The spiritual adepts are 'One with God'. As the 'open door' or instrument of the LAW of love they do not force humanity to stop behaving badly. They guide and teach the law so that we can make enlightened choices in expressing our freewill. They understand that nations and individuals have karma, some more than others depending on our actions and our failures to act. They do not prevent the working of the karmic law and at certain times the return of karma is ferocious in equal measure to man's own ferocity 'sown' over a long time period, in this case around 25800 years (a "great cycle"). It is the end of an age (the "end times") and a mountain of karma is due.

At critical junctures like this the adepts can intervene to steer the return of karma where it is due. Individuals and nations can be helped to see destruction before it arrives and shown a higher way but if that guidance (through our own hearts) is ignored then the karma must descend and become physical. The return of karmic energies cannot be prevented but the adepts teach us how to transmute it by rising into a higher state of consciousness. That is the extent of their intervention. If "alien saviours in UFOs" are openly "disclosed" to us they will be the smiling assassins.

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

I too was raised a Christian but have always felt that the dogmas of the church somehow did not ring true for me.

In regards to the "Jesus Myth", I find that it does not matter. What matters is the message of enlightenment that has threatened the PTB through the ages.The message is totally lost when you subjugate your soul to the worship of the messenger...any messenger which is why I think the "Church" was created..to separate us from God.

I don't think that Jesus or whomever you believe in wants to be worshipped if they have come with a message of true enlightenment. We worship because we don't feel worthy. As if we really believe we were "born in sin" which for me is the antithesist of a "Virgin Birth". We are all born pure and have no need for a Savior.

We can embrace and honour his words in our hearts, permeating our souls and let them flow forth through our love ..or bow down and douse the divine spark within.

Just a thought.

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

I concur

people get too caught up in right and wrong and miss the point altogether

the archetype itself is an important esoteric message


peace

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

Hello there,

it makes me sad reading so much aversion against christianity here in this thread. So I decided to add my two cents.

I am a christian, too. And since many years I am searching for that what I would call "truth". You can call it "god", "brahman", "atma", "allah", "higher self" or anything else. Name it as you want, it doesn't matter. Names are irrelevant. They only point to the moon but never mistake them for the moon itself. You have to go beyond words or concepts. It is impossible to explain to a blind man, how a color like "red" looks like or to depict the taste of an orange to a man who never tasted an orange before.

Go and look for yourself. There is much, much truth in nearly every religion on earth, and yes, even in our good old christian faith. There is only one god, our creator, and this god has been manifesting himself/itself in every part of the world, in every civilization and throughout history. But, alas, mankind has misinterpreted a good deal of their experiences with god. And today, there is much confusion about truth and reality itself. Unfortunately, there has been in nearly every religion a mingling of truth with selfish interests and/or with striving for power. Yes, this is very sad, indeed. And I can understand that a lot of people today are disliking christianity (or other organized belief systems) due to its history or as a result of negative personal experiences. But again, don't draw a premature conclusion concerning christian faith just as a consequence of this. Beware! It could happen to you that in one of your next lives you will become an ardent christian.

Admittedly, concerning christianity, one has to look very carefully and very deep. But truth is there, I am convinced of that. It is the same truth as in buddhism, in hinduism, islam and any other religion. Christian faith has absolutely nothing in common with selfishness. Christian faith doesn't oblige you to believe that our world has been created literally in 6 days nearly 6000 years ago or that Darwin has been on a false track or that Mother Mary has been a virgin. No. Christian faith has a lot to do with love - unconditional love - and with total altruism, a love that even accepts to die for others. It has a lot to do with seeing god or Jesus/Christ in your neighbor and not accepting when you see him suffer. It has a lot to do with developing compassion to all living beings and not to stop with this feeling but to change negative circumstances into positive. It has to do with sacrificing yourself for the needs of others, to live for others, to die for others. It has to do with the comforting certainty that our own suffering isn't insane, but that god himself is suffering with us (he/it just don't want to infringe upon our free will, and yes, we have chosen our suffering by our free will, I believe), it has to do with the absolute confidence, that everything is good and/or in the end will turn out good, and finally with the certainty, that death is not the end of all, but that we will evolve until we reach perfection.

A last word to clarkkent, the original poster. It even doesn't matter, if you cling to a religion or not. It's not important. Just follow your inner voice, follow that which you feel is important in your life. Be tolerant. Don't disrespect those who cling to a (organized) belief system. And what concerns me: Please don't think of me as being boastful or "holier-than-you". With this contribution it is not my intention to sound arrogant or to appear a wiseacre. I just want to share my experience with christian faith. There is much good in it. To summarize it in one single sentence: Christian faith could have been one of the highest evolved religion mankind ever has developed, but nowadays it is in a really bad shape and it is neither better nor worse than any other religion. Perhaps in the decades to come it will be replaced by "something better". We will see.

Finally, sorry for my bad english. I'm not a native speaker and I have very little practice.

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

eh? i dont remember disrespecting anyone or their faith- and i consider myself pretty tolerant and i do listen to my "gut" which is telling me to abandon this forum because its turned into something i dont vibe with. (the first couple weeks were pretty great but the vast majority of rational people have left)

adios muchachos, good luck and be well :)

Re: CHRISTIANITY and avalon : a question from clark
 

Since I am one of the people who even came close to rip on Christianity here I thought I would share some insights on why (and let clarkkent of the hook since his only part in this is starting a good thread with a discussion that is really necessary).

First of all. I am not a fan of blind following. In any case. Religion, politics it does not matter. If you loose your objective ability then you have lost. No matter what ideology you are clinging to. There is one thing finding symbolic meaning and guidance in scripture. To be able to read between the lines and not take things too litterally, to access the core knowledge open minded.

Sadly the monotheistic religions are the worst faiths EVER to be able to teach this to their respective followings. One can almost suspect that they deliberately (oh really? :roftl:) keep their teachings on a level that transforms the message into a construct of power. A tool for using a grain of light to spread a veil of darkness.

Corruption is a property of man. Not of God or his teachings. But certainly one can admit that Christianity has made a real ass of itself when it comes to corrupting itself so far from the original teachings that Jesus must be at least a bit dissapointed on what happend to his teachings. I can imagine his Father walking around like a restless schoolteacher thinking: "What did I do wrong? I tried spanking them, rewarding them, I gave them a nice stay in Egpyt, I sent my Son, now WHAT?"

And please don´t ask me "in what way" Christianity is corrupt. Because then I will refer you back to the history books without supper and then straight to bed (please pardon my sense of humor, not trying to be sarcastic).

After this long and very subjective rant it is easy to dismiss me as a "hatemonger" or "christ hater" or whatever. That is the price I have to pay.
But please consider my point here. Not only is Christianity corrupt but it is also a "clipbook" of faiths that are much older and it´s scriptures are highly CENSORED.

I mean if you have a book that should contain the highest truths of all. Then you find out that it has practically stolen a few ideas of older origin (hebrew, sumerian, zoroastrian etc), mistranslate words that give important sentences a whole new meaning (how about the plural error that transformed "Gods" into "God" and started the whole mess), cut out the parts that does not fit in to the main agenda (in some bible versions the Nephilim are left out) and purposly left out teachings that eventually surface to the public anyway (dead sea scrolls anyone?). And on top of that do some extra editing of the texts when the powers at be feels that it has to be adjusted (Kings James bible etc). Then where is the truth in it? Any other book than a religous one would fall under HEAVY critique. Why should religious ones be treated different?

Please understand that I am not trying to attack sincere and loving people that claim to be christian. But the many "weak links" in the monotheistic faiths. Islam included to a certain degree.

Now let the wrath of almighty "GOD" reign upon me. For this is the thing you should not do to Christianity, you should not question it. People have died for saying these kind of things you know ....

Do what thou whilst ...