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It is my understanding that once the body has metabolized its intake, and produced "fat," that fat can only be remetabolized if ingested - a most yucky proposition. Fat is lost in the fitness process, not remetabolized, i.e., you lose it, not use it. Mammals that store fat for hibernation use it for warmth, not sustinance. We are not a hibernating species, so excess fat only hampers ideal biological functions.

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The fat people are going to struggle, but it's their own fault for over eating, or is it just because they are big boned?? :naughty:

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I don't think it will be "fat" people who struggle, it will be those who are totally out of shape. There are lots of overweight people who are physically healthier, stronger, and have more stamina than skinny people.

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I don't suggest violence for the sake of violence, I suggest that defending fringe communities by sitting in one spot with a rifle is impossible and that certain tactics are necessary because otherwise you're just a target for some of the advanced artillery you mentioned.

The elements are no fun to deal with, but the best way to prepare is take a survival course, not read up on theories. I think that survival material is very prevalent in society today, you got Bear Grills and Survivorman on TV and numerous magazines and training courses available all over the United States. Anyone that wants to, in this time period right now, can learn how to handle the wilderness, you just need to actively learn it.

But one none of that teaches you is the unique situation we will be facing. In my original post, I stressed 3 things, 1. Awareness of the trespassers in your territory 2. Establishing relationships and communication with other settlers and safe zones 3. Helping other survivors to these safe zones.

We have a responsibility that for most of us will go beyond knowing how to survive the elements to helping as many other people as we can survive the elements. For 90% of people, defense will probably only be in regard to bandits and outlaws, and the PTB will be mostly focused on its own zones. However, defense against outlaws is still defense, and building camps in areas with no awareness, no friends, and no ammunition makes you a sitting duck.

My suggestions were not that we should take an offensive role, that's simply not the objective of project avalon, but that we should be prepared for the possibility of violence and no how respond appropriately, and the most effective ways are 1. Running away and 2. Ambushing. Defending yourself from your home base is not included on that list, and that is my main point about this.

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I'm not sure I agree with the tone of your post. I agree that being overweight, suffering the resultant health problems, and having great difficulty if the SHTF should be viewed as a personal choice, and the overweight should own their mistakes.

With that being said, there are external factors that come into play, unrestrained and manipulative advertising, the addition of addictive chemical compounds, etc. have had their impact.

Ridicule is not what motivates people to change, and has no place on this thread.

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Yea I wonder why anyone would bother tracking us down????
What would be the point in them doing that???
I have a stock of food and am able to defend myself from people that might want to take my food and water but why would a army/police force want to bother it's self with me???

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Personally I intend to travel down to Cornwall and live in one of the many holiday homes there before finding myself a nice yacht :boat: and heading off to warmer climates :mf_rosetinted:

Hopefully the **** wont hit the fan before the end of April when it starts to warm up a bit :sweatdrop:
In the mean time I will carry on getting myself ready :boxing::winner_first_h4h:

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I don't think individuals who make through will have much to worry about initially from the PTB - they'll have herds to manage, and in the middle of something terrible. The little fish who get through the net will not command much interest.

But here's the thing. When the dust settles from whatever may come, the PTB - if they manage to make it through to the other side, and actually remain the PTB - will have a vested interest, as always, in dominating the Earth's surface resources. Individuals who make it through, and remain isolated, won't be of any real consequence. But the COMMUNITIES that form, on the other hand, will be raising a new generation - probably with an ideology in direct opposition to whatever remains of the dominant power structure. That is where concerns about sattelite imaging and such come in. Hiding and confrontation will be the only options, and as I and others have stated before, confrontation will probably prove futile.

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You know, whatever predator of people is left will most likely have already chosen those they prefer in their cult to live 'ideally' underground. The enemy that lurks now are nefariously inspired humans as you are aware of. THey will not last long. This seems somewhat obvious if at all they actually do pull some dramas that the rest of the collective is forced to deal with economically.

The real and bigger issue will end in perhaps a decade or more from now -the cataclysmic effects of cosmic weather. They that devise to depopulate humanity are counting on the negative weather to wipe out the small colonies or people unprepared for such (explains most the underground cities).

Then, considerations for trade with those who have survived will begin. It will be a split in humanity..perhaps.

If not, we could all end up awakening on a level that one remembers fully personal and spiritual identity at the moment of the galactic crossing-after dec21, 2012 we will then experience the planet shift from planet X that because it is a brown dwarf smoldering not lighted sun, it will affect the earth as it passes through our solar system -this is a given. How will anyone hide from this? research the best source of this from the Gnostics via gnostic radio.com -all saturday talks on internet and free ipod download rss feeds. search out what they term planet X and call it Huron -they have records still that prove it happened many times. it is called the destroyer because it wipes away all deception from the astral field here and literally initiates the earth and the enlightened people here. You are correct in that you must prepare to survive these changes but inner preparation is the end all.

Becoming peaceful within is key to comprehending what is truth, period. Re-education can begin safely after this. if not, in this situation, survival on the surface without inner preparation is the ultimate in futility. Even the bible says that many ran to the caves and hill trying to escape these things of change that come and many were crushed inside the cities underground-built to escape the horrendous weather issue.

i have included a couple of links to see what I mean about learning more of the hidden historical to sense what comes and how to stand still to even know what is needed. While these vids may not seem more than a fictitious story, it is not. Also, it is understandably what we signed up for that has nothing to do with religion and i think comes from a source that left one of these illuminati cults. Remember that while you watch this (if you do) that it is a hidden inner view of history unfolding even now and that they whom are self proclaimed as the elite will fall into chaos -their plans and devices will not really work - that is why they are working day and night to force globally felt chaos. dont buy into any of it as thier time is short for being in power and they know it.
They are who kept all the higher knowledge hidden away from us while using many techniques to program each of us. you need to see the missing history lesson first. like the inter-terrestrials that live inside the earth that are humans (perhaps giants compared to us, but perfect DNA that are benevolent). They sent in the enlightened to help humanity ascend and then return back there to establish a new school of wisdom.

there are way more that are here and they are not all enemies.

try it! re-education takes only some observing while you gather supplies. you will be amazed. there are five parts of this series and they are all over an hour long. the following is the final two part video research about what that concerns us all.

part five -1 of 2
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ntis%205&emb=0

part five 2 of 2
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ntis%205&emb=0


the first one is this link;
part one movie;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...11327825391213

see the following as legend of atlantis part 1,2,3,4

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Obesity epidemic.

Want to know a secret? It was manufactured by the powers that be. Think I am kidding you? Do some research through medical papers (if you have access) and look at the effect of monosodiumglutemate on the livers, kidneys and pancreas of test animals.

Oh and whilst your at it, look at the effects of their blood sugars and prevelance of diabetes.

Then think long and hard as to why if these toxic effects were know, was it allowed en mass into the human food chain.

Fat unhealthy mentally sedated people cannot run far or put up much oppostition.

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Peer,
:thumb_yello: now thats what i call a post! :winner_first_h4h:


People I meet out in the mountains often stop for a chat. Its amazing how setting up a bivvie on a mountain side, fire going and a brew on makes people feel 'safe'. Weird, but if I was sat there with nothing they would never stop to talk. My point being that they are curious as to why I am there. I explain a little (never too much) and have enetered into email discussions with a few of them.

I take this period as a time for learning, a time for deep reflection on whats within, and most importantly, a time to start letting go of what i think I need, and concentrating on what i know I will need in the future.

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Good point on bows Peer. Bows and arrows will be a lot easier to replace/maintain if guns are not availiable. Here are some DIY sites:

http://www.primitiveways.com/sapling_bow.html
No pictures, but very detailed.

http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-composite_bow.html
Same site, diffrent bow, some pictures.

http://www.onagocag.com/knapping.html
This is a good site for stone flint knapping. It has some good links. Natural history museum book shops are also great resources for one wanting to learn this skill, and some of the best can be accessed online. The National Museum of Natural History, and the National Museum of the American Indian are two I reccomend. But, as many tribal societies discovered at the onset of the fur trade, metal is really where it is at. Thin pieces of copper or iron will probably be the way to go.

http://www.primitiveways.com/fletching_by_hand.html
I didn't want to leave out fletching - making your own arrow shafts - since I'd come this far. Also taken from the Primitive Ways site.

If anyone finds anything better than this please post.

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Yes.

Sorry but the brutal truth of it is that if she was wheel chair bound, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

Times coming will require movement over heavy terrain and in as much silence as possible. Granny? I love you but not that much.

As for the bows, I totally agree - best if you get practise in now, and avoid as stated the compound bow (illegal here in the Uk as they can penetrate UK spec Police body armour).

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I used to work in PNG as a rural water supply engineer
My advise to readers of this thread is set up a rain catchment system.
Rain water is great :thumb_yello:


What does PTB stand for??

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Peer,

You sound like an expert! Can you contribute some more posts on Archery and the like? Whatever knowledge you have applies here, so spill it man! Remember, the info you share could save a life someday.

Thanks a lot Peer,

The HistoryCircus - because history is full of clowns.

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I'll second that. Advice is always welcome from a man of talent (or lady).

Bamboo - now thats some thing I have used again and again to make fishing traps out of. Its amazingly effective as it can be sharpend to a point where it will slice flesh as easily as a steel blade.

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PTB is simply shorthand here for "Powers that be." Sorry for the confusion - I realize I have been using it for a while.

What sort of rainwater collection systems do you recommend - beyond putting out a bucket in a thunderstorm? Are there systems you are familiar with, either commercial or homemade?

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Any roof that has a guttering can be used to collect rainwater.
I would recommend getting some water butts and placing them under the downpipes from the gutter.
We used to make similar to southern cross water tanks and feed them from either church roofs or just a few sheets of corrugated iron. You can either link the butts together or just redirect the flow to each. I recommend using some type of cover that lets water through but stops crap like leaves, flies etc from contaminating the water. You can get a membrane that stops weeds from growing in your garden that is ok for this.
Hope this helps

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Dude maybe so, so in a way im carring my stocked food supplies "on me"? I heard someone way once it was a way for us to ground, to get the munchies more ect. But it might be a subconscious was of preparing even if our minds cant really grasp whats comming.

This thread rocks BTW i know effort has to be put into maintaining exhistance and sititng in a circle singing Cum By Ya will only go so far LOL

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You mean like a hobbit house?

http://blissful.co.nz/blog/archives/...bbit_house.php

http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/index.htm

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Actually, fatty deposits are a bad source of energy for the body. The body would rather metabolise muscle tissue for energy as it is far far more efficient, and fat cannot be converted into carbohydrates either...


Ask your Dr or Nurse about it, and they will show you or tell you why this is so - its all about glycogen storage and ATP production for use as the cellular energy source. (unless its red blood cells then they need direct glucose transport for energy, as does the brain.

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Yeah I don't think we should confuse being a society programmed to eat unhealthy foods as our unconscious minds preparing us for hard times.

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Here is a very nice source of survival information. I especially like the Bow Bed

http://wildwoodsurvival.com

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"I would like to teach online but was alien contacted and told by a very big unkind and dark individual being (I sensed reptilian) that much mischief would befall my experiment via other vessels not as capable as I should I actually attempt such a class online. I did suddenly realize that the only way to act and get the same results was to meet in a group of only three, hold formal meditation and reach people in the third chakra without going the live feed. It is best if done at the same time each day but truthfully, my inner counsel says that our vessels can overcome the space time separation by honoring the freedom to hold that space with others linked into strong meditation with the personal intent to then increase your skills internally to the order described above. We will both have real time mind-link space shared third chakrally and more that cannot be described. Keep in mind that the more you practice empowering personal space the more invincible you instantly become. I am at your service and i will see any of you within when it serves you.
__________________
MariGaia"

Thanks! This is important information and why I am convinced that conventional wisdom will need to change in these times so that this positive energy can be applied in these "Safe Place" communities. TPB will be focused (at least initially) on the haters who are armed to the teeth, one opportunity away from insurgent/terrorist actions. We must insist on appearing harmless as well as being positive. More on that in late posts.

As a Spirit filled Christian for decades, I have prayed daily, loud and long, but rarely listened. Over recent months, I have grown tired of overlooking the many distortions and contradicting behavior, and sought a divergent path toward the light. I have only recently started Meditation which has had no noticable changes as yet. Ever since I was very young, I have wanted to be a healer and only now am looking earnestly toward Reiki. I expect good things to come. I would be interested in more of what you have to say.

I also have more to say soon on this thread, but not on this subject directly.

For the cause!

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How to make traditional bowstrings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24-J-RpbxFo

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We'll need Stirling engines because they can operate on solar-energy and using hollow mirrors as described in the solar-cookersthread it can drive generators to produce electricity.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C00601...rling.php3?v=2

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We'll need to plant and grow hemp.

Did you know that before 1937 every farmer in the US was forced by law to grow a certain amount of hemp?
It produces about 4 times as much fibers every year as the same amount of wood in about 30 years.

You can make clothes that feel soft like silk and last 5 times as long as cotton without the polution cotton causes.
You can make paper out of it that is whiter and stronger than any wood produces.
The oil from hemp cures cancer, erases scars from old wounds and cures many other diseases.

From the oil of the hempseeds you can produce plastics and biofuel for engines.
Did you know that the worldfamous T-ford was partly made from plastic produced from hempseed-oil?
That it ran on hempseed-oil?
That these plastics were stronger than steel and biologically degradeble and recycleble?

Hemp doesn't exhaust the soil, on the contrary: You can use the soil year after year and it gets better and better.

Now why isn't hemp used anymore?

In 1937 Dupont invented plastics made out of earth-oil.
The petro-chemical industry had to get rid of its greatest rival: Hemp.
So they renamed it into Marihuana, started a huge propaganda-campaign that it was the youth's worst enemy and lobbied untill there was a law that forbade the growth and use of Marihuana.

Only after this law was passed people discovered that Marihuana actually was hemp and that a huge source of good things was stolen away from them because of the greed of a few.
Where or when have I heard this story before? Or after?

Actually in one campaign it was said that Marihuana made the youth passive so they would fall asleep and that it was the biggest enemy of the "American dream" and in another campaign it was stated that it was supposed to make the youth very agressive and that it would lead to total chaos and war.....

One thing is sure:
If the same amount of hemp was grown in the USA as it was before 1937 all the fuel-, health- and environmental problems would be solved within a year.

No rainforest was needed anymore, no need anymore for expensive chemical medicines.

But that would give us another problem wouldn't it?

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What a thread! Here's a link for those who are inclined to make the tools needed after all the high tech supplies have 'expired'. Covers the areas from music, household, weaponry and so very much more.

URL="http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/directory" Cut and paste if I didn't get it right.

Natoka

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Thanks Nakota - I'll check that site out as soon as I have time.

As for Peer's comments on hemp - I'm in 100% agreement. It can also be used as an alternative fuel. A great book that documents the very historical dicline that Peer discusses in his post is called "The Emperer Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer. His book is the standard.

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Hemp.

Natures very own 'miracle mile' gift to us.

Fuel, medicines, clothes, you name it hemp can do it cheaply, efficiently and all the time keeping the soil in tip top condition because it doesn't just take take take from the soil, it gives back, making its habitat stronger each passing year.

I hope in times ahead we will see miles upon miles of this growing freely in fields with nervous laughter when we look back at the sheer naked greed of the plastics industry aka petrochemical stasi.

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And you don't get addicted.
After almost 40 years of smoking it I just quit from one day to another and never had any addiction symptoms.

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On bows:
There are a lot of sites about bowbuilding but many are about traditional (=longbow) bows.
I prefer the recurve bow because it is much faster, smaller, much easier to handle and to draw than the slow and backbreaking longbow.
Also the power of the bow is often exaggerated.
Big guys want to draw 60 or 80 pound bows.
(The drawing weight is measured at 28# drawing length).
As it is ridiculous to hunt for little game on a distance of more than about 15-25 metres no such drawingweight is required.
A 35-50 pnd bow will do fine and if you put on a razorhead point it will penetrate a bullitproof vest on about 25 metres as well.
Much easier (and cheaper) than building your own bow you can buy Korean (Samick) huntingbows for a very reasonable prize.
Some bows you buy for $ 50-$ 100.
Remember you don't want to be the worlds Archerychampion but you want to get yourself a rabbit a day and if nessecary be able to "shoot it from the hip" and that requires a completely different skill.
And it may seem a joke but last summer I practiced shooting sitting in my lazy chair but that is not so funny as it seems as you sometimes must be able to shoot laying on a big branch of a tree.

http://picasaweb.google.nl/peervande...ey=WElPSfQQgdU

You can see the longbow my friend is shooting is not half as comfortable as my shorter recurve and although my friend draws about 10 Lbs more my arrow is faster (we tested that with an electronic device).
The beercan I hold between my thighs shows that targetpracticing should be fun.
If it is not your thing don't do it but if it attracts you go ahaed and you'll have a wonderfull sport untill you need the skill in a practical way.
The two video's also show the difference between the comfort of a recurve bow and the longbow

There are also very good american huntingbows so check out this site:
http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/

Here you can see what a bow is capable of. This is no trick.
Talking about accuracy. Also look at the arrow in flight in slow motion.
See the vibration and the bending?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcNY2t0h-HE

On the other hand you wouldn't be able to move in the forest with that equipment but hitting an egg at 30-40 metres without site and stabilisors is no exeption.
I have seen arrows being split by the second one many times.

Ok for now.

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here is one of the best links to survial in all conditions urban outdoor, everything CHECK IT OUT! http://www.endtimesreport.com

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Great thread here. I have synthesized a few different "earth changes" maps I have found on the internet, and combined this with my gut feelings about what lies ahead. I have already decided where I will be relocating to, and my present house is on the market as we speak, or as we post :original:

As a builder with over 25 years experience building in a very "green" and progressive state I have come up with what I think is a very good and inexpensive design for an earth sheltered house. This is the ONLY way to go for many reasons, not the least of which is that the ambient ground temp. makes it easy to heat and cool.

I agree with previous post about the governments' ability to surveil. But one variable is that with so much chaos and societal meltdown in the urban centers, how many years do you think it will take the PTB to get to the little isolated communities which are self sustaining, and pose no problem? It might never happen in fact. I see "getting back to the woods" as a way to weather the storm. Who knows, in a decade or so the PTB might loose its steam due to military desertions, bad moral, change in the political agenda, anything could change the course of events. I certainly DO NOT plan on rounding up my family and getting a free ride to a FEMA camp, and will wait quietly to see where the chips fall.

I think that talk of bows and arrows is crazy (no disrespect intended). When you and your loved ones are barely eking out a living and you are trying to provide food I think a firearm is the only way to go, that said, it is true that the bovine ensephalitis which has infected wild deer and elk herds, makes trapping, snaring, smaller mammals and birds a better choice. Wildcrafting herbs for food and medicine will be necessary as well. Regardless of a "nuclear winter" scenario, mother nature is pretty resilient, and will always provide for those willing to look.

Gun shows, last I knew were a great place to purchase arms without going through the permitting process.

Earth roofs are a great means of evading detection from satelites.

This minimal visual footprint approach eliminates the ability to have solar panels (as they would be very visible), so be prepared to really rough it if you use that approach.

Collecting rain water is good, but anyone serious about a small community had better be serious about locating it around WATER. A couple of hours with a backhoe and some concrete well tiles, and you've got an artesian well for about 1K. The beauty of this is you don't need to have a submersible pump. You can use a low voltage DC (solar) pump or even mount a old school cast iron handle on your community well.

Clusters of houses allow you to have shared utilities like solar arrays, outhouses, wells, septic, gardens, generator, greenhouse etc. This also allows somewhat for specialties. You might have an electrician, a builder, some people with green thumbs, a tracker, a wildcrafter, potter...you get the idea. The problem is times a wastin'. This financial collapse, though not a surprise was pretty precipitous, and will leave many folks without the means or the time to prepare for what is coming.

I could go on forever. This is a good topic and has made me rethink some of my plans. I will be looking into military camouflage fabric and whether it would alow enough light transfer to photovoltaic panels. I think the bottom line is COMMUNITY. I agree that foreign UN troops will be more willing to shoot at Americans, but a close knit independent group is bound to be left alone. Worst case scenario is that the first few might fall, but it will be this exact thing which causes the low moral/desertions. Look no further back than Vietnam or even Iraq to see that this kind of unjust genocidal conflict foments dissension in the ranks.

I hope some of us take this beyond the discussion stage, and start walking the walk, because the fate of homo sapiens lies in the balance.