Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

The time will come when men such I will look upon the murder
of animals as know the look upon the murder of men.
Leonardo da Vinci

Re: nutrition lesson!
 

I am truly sorry if I offended anyone with my remark. I was trying to be humorous. Please forgive me.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

YEA!!! great thread~

I am vegan, on and off for 20 years, now on for several months for good. I have been guided that it most definitely is a higher vibration way to live/eat, however, spirit cautions that not every evolving "ego" is ready for the higher vibration. In other words, if that souls' evolution still requires the "vibration" of animal foods to continue it's "growth", it will manifest as a nutrient 'need' for animal protein. HOWEVER-there is no debate scientifically now that less animal protein and more whole plant foods prevent and heal disease (see THE CHINA STUDY by T. Colin Campbell, PhD).

I feel SOOOOO much better on a plant based diet, but WITHOUT refined sugar! Sugar is "vegan" but also carcinogenic!

Viva La Vegan~

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

It is an important step towards human species survival.
Producing meat uses far more resources than vegetables.

That said, I am not really vegetarian. Was vegan for some time. I eat meat about twice a month now, but I do consider all animal flesh (even fish) to be meat.

If you are looking to increase the health of your mind+body...
focus on doing good things.
Not on avoiding bad things, that will happen naturally once the good is flowing.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

It's known that the vast majority of plants live on a far lower plane of consciousness then even the most lowly animal.

Many fruits and vegetables are designed to be eaten. Just look at them and think about how they work and you'll see. I can't think of one animal
where the same can be said.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Sideshow Shaman I'm curious . . . . what experience do you have growing vegetables or producing meat?

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

I feel no guilt for being at the top of the food chain. The only thing I feel guilt about is not being able to share my gratefulness to the creature that died for me; by treating it compassionately during its life and asking its spirit both for its blessings and forgiveness.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Then, it is OK to harvest for sustinance any living organism that has a lower level of conciousness than ourselves? That should present a real problem for those who believe extraterrestrials are doing the same thing to humans, and are horrified by it.

Just a thought.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

"Life" doesn't spontaneously come from nowhere... it just gets passed along. Somewhere, something has to "give" in order for something else to "receive".

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Good point Boogies. Native American hunters did that very thing. European traders found it odd that Indian hunters would speak to the fallen prey after the chase. In a couple of recorded instances, we know they were thanking the spirit of the animal for its gift. We could probably do the same I guess, but it would be eaisier if we had an up close relationship with our meat (caught or raised ourselves).

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

ummm ... all life is connected .. you choose to eat animals from slaughter houses, therefore you support the system of killing via slaughter houses ..

You choose to do this .. you dont need too ..

top of the food chain ... umm interesting that is probably what the power brokers think when they consider the consequences of their actions in relation to us mere mortals ..

sets a dangerous precedent does nt it :shocked:

it is hard for truely awake individuals to harm other beings .. only those who are asleep could do such a thing

the native americans were very connected to all life .. we cant live like them these days .. or very few of us can ..in relation to eating sentient animals

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

good point .. where are mankind giving ? specifically where are western mankind giving ?

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

There are many other animals out there at the top of the food chain- all strictly carnivores are.

And I do not see any connections between vertical patriarchal power structures and the food chain. In either situation, we all die and the microbes get us- they turn us into nutrients that feed plants, that feed the herbivores, that feed the omnivores and the carnivores. But as far as the system goes, one sick power-hungry monster dies and nobody benefits. They just get replaced by another sick power-hungry monster. The little guy doesn't get a piece of anything.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

I also use dollars, but that does not mean I support the Federal Reserve.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

At the risk of being labeled a provocoteur or a troll I have a viewpoint.

Karma is for all beings - including animals and perhaps vegetables.

Has anyone thought that perhaps an animal giving his life to feed and nurture a higher being creates good karma which will allow that animal to ascend to a higher state of conciousness? Perhaps when a higher being eats an animal and gives him the opportunity to ascend that also generates good karma for the individual.

I know this is out of vegan mainstream belief and again, I don't mean to disrupt or instigate. It is just a thought that I had.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

i apologise for calling you saying you were ATS trolling that was wrong of me

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Ok, this is so bizarre, but I had a flashback to college "History of Fairy Tales" class...

Basically, in western culture it was a GOOD thing to eat/drink something because there was a belief that by doing so you could acquire some of the characteristics of the thing/person(!) you were eating. Cannibalism was a very popular theme in western fairy tales. But what is more disturbing than that is the number of people who participate in symbolic ritual cannibalism every Sunday! (Really no offense intended, just an intellectual observation).

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

the thing is boogle the meat eaters and th enon meat eaters or partial meat eaters will never agree .. until a shift occurs and they see things the same way .. so all this discussion is in some way pointless..

I think the belief you have just highlighted is still in operation which is why the chinese [ some chinese ] chop off the paws ffrom bears when they are still alive - to imbue the soup with the fear and pain of the bear ..

same with tigers .. they have tiger farms where they harvest these beautiful creatures for the same reason ..

essentially .. slaughter houses are vile and that is where most of the meat comes from .. i cant eat meat because i cant be party to that vileness .. any cursury look at farming methods and killing methods on the internet and you would see what i mean.

If could live life as the american indians did .. maybe i would eat meat ..

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

You're right.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

The planes of human consciousness and above are in a whole new and separate category then that which is below it, ala elements, minerals, plants, and then animals. There exists a gradient though between the creatures and the planes. Meaning the highest mineral will be similar in awareness to the lowest plant, and the highest plant similar to lowest animal.

But going along with your question, to be truly benevolent we wouldn't even be able to exist. :naughty: As every step we take would squish an atom which has a basic love/fear consciousness, or scientifically speaking, attract/repel. This is where common sense needs to come into play.

Edit:
Oops I meant to add that what is happening now to animals is PURE EVIL. They are being skinned alive and hung from hooks every single minute of every day. They are being burnt, electrocuted, and tortured in ways we all need to become aware of, because anyone with any sense of humanity would be sickened if they really knew what was happening in meat processing plants. We need to become aware so it will stop..

Watch this video meat eaters! It doesn't bite... or live in ignorance. :winksmiley02:
http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

I'm not knocking anything here at all, love my vegies and don't eat alot of meat and my oldest sister is vegetarian, but just wondering why do we have the teeth we have? some teeth are for biting and tearing meat aren't they? again, just wondering!

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

i agree .. and when our consciouness rises collectively this wont happen .. advanced societies would never ever treat sentient beings like this ..

we as in mankind dont have a great track record in the way we treat each other either ..

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5039/cowre3.png

http://smartcanucks.ca/wp-content/up...sad-tomato.jpg

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

yea yea same old same old .. there is ALWAYS someone like king lear who is an avid meat eater .. who then starts going on about vegetables YAWN ...:yikes:

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

The good king's symbols are valid Jzz. We have a right to eat vegetables because they are a lower form of sentient life? I think the carrot men of garden planet 7 would argue with you.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

haha my point is that it is always the people who care nothing for the killing of other life forms who make this point IMO .. they happily eat veal and pigs that have been kept in sheds their whole lives and killed in the most barbarious manner ..

then they always seem to make this inane point about vegetables ..

I do think trees and plants have life force ... lear made that post to mock not to inform which is why i am :lmao:

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Izz, from one perspective you are absolutely correct. To kill and to eat another animal is wrong from several spiritual perspectives.

Then there is the reality that if the body goes without meat in 7 years it loses the capacity to produce its own vitamin B. In fact, some bodies become anemic without meat and just do very poorly. Blood type O needs meat where another Blood type doesn't. Who is to say what is right here? We chose not to eat meat for spiritual reasons and then chose to eat meat again for medical reasons.

I did speak to a Buddhist about this once and there was a lovely story she told which referred to how the consciousness of that which was eaten was raised by the act of becoming one with person who needed food to live. That if not eaten, consciousness would stay at the same level. I wish I could remember the story to pass it on as it did help me personally come to terms with this delemma.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Lots. I've lived in the center of a city now for quite a few years. So all I have in the ground right now is asparagus and horse radish. These are on my fathers property which is virgin forest.

At age 2 my family moved into a farming community, heavily dairy too. A bit funny because I have never liked dairy. Anyway, the children's (me+others) daily chores included weeding the large garden, feeding the animals, etc. We also helped at the time of planting & slaughter. The fishing rule was, You catch it you clean it. We stayed there until i was 10.

The variety of plants and animals that we grew was fairly large. Food was also gathered from the forest, mushrooms, watercress, nettles, blueberries, etc. Bartering with farmers was good too. I still enjoy hanging out with the organic farmers and trading tips when I visit.


Funny thing i noticed a couple years ago. Went back to the swamp in the state forest where a huge amount of blueberries grow free for the picking. In the 70s when our whole family would go picking there were always other people out there. if you waited until the end of the season there might not be much left. This time when we went, not only was no one else out there, the bushes had not been picked at all for the entire season! People are really losing touch.

Thanks for asking Blufire :-)
It sounds like you have a pretty good knack for growing.



I feel that if everyone had to kill & butcher their own meat, many meat eaters would suddenly lose their appetite. It is important to honor the animals that are eaten. Modern slaughter houses are truly an abomination. My experience of knowing where my food comes from seems to be fairly unusual these days.

It also seems pretty obvious that meat has been heavily over-emphasized in western culture, and increasingly so in eastern cultures. So for the most part people really should, at least, cut back on the sheer volume of meat consumed.

Everyone here should realize by now that the modern food supply has been highly, purposely, contaminated. That goes double for supermarket meat.

Beef!
it's what you're programmed to eat.
:naughty:

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to butcher an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?
Indeed there are many countries in the world where humans have lesser rights and get abused much more than animals in the western world.

So stop wailing!
Go to Afghanistan and demonstrate there for animal rights, you will see what you earn.


I myself have in fact many veggies as personal friends, but that doesn't stop me to make fun of them.
In my opinion it is as stupid to exclude meat totally, as to exclude vegetables and fruits totally.

In my opinion that's unhealthy.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

I that is very good point. It shows respect for the animals and a understanding they have a soul. To say thanks to the spirit of the animal for its gift of its body as meat.


For me I consider animals as my friends. And I dont eat my friends.

As for plants. I dont consider that they have a entity living inside them, although they most definitely are alive.

I do not think our journey as souls begins with plants, but with animals and the more you advance your soul the further you progress. I dont know where we start in this jorney, say as ants or beatles for instance. Or what the advanced beings are or we we are in this line.
I think that as Humans we are on this road somewhere, and the more you progress your own or other souls the more likely you will progress to the next leval, where ever that is :blush-anim-cl:

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

But GOD created us this way.
As beings who consume living resources.
We've to accept our position!

I myself would like to consume only sunlight, that would be good for my purse as for my waist.
But unfortunately that's not the way GOD created us.

Is a wolf cruel, when he kills a sheep to survive?
Or a bear who catches a salmon at the waterfalls?
Bears are indeed so wasteful that they only rip out the caviar of the salmons and then throw away the rest of the corpse.


No.
Only the meat consuming human is mean and cruel.

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

:mfr_lol:

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

haha i have to respond to this but need to be careful with my wording :mfr_omg:

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Whether there really are such laws I don't know, but if you think they are being followed then you have proven your ignorance to the reality of meat processing plants, among other things, 110%. :thumb_yello:

Do you guys know that in one pack of ground beef there could be up to 1000 different cows... mmmmm!

Did you know that the FDA deems cows and other animals with cancer and other man made diseases safe for processing.... mmmmmm!

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

check out ' meet your meat '

put that in your browser King Lear ..

and tell me that slaughter houses are not evil places full of pain, fear and terrible terrible acts of barbary

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

Ok its nice to debate with you.

Wolves. Bears. And salmon as they are canivores. They do not have a choice. If they dont eat what nature provides they would die. We have a choice, you have a choice. We have evolved and that enables us to have a choice.

God! You mean the alien race that put us here? Or do you mean the one we say sorry to every sunday for our sins that we commit in the week?

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

In most states there are more codes and regulations for the raising of livestock than there are for raising human children.

California is just one:

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/fac.html

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

That's not quite correct!
Bears are omnivores, they eat hunny, berries and even gras and plants.
So they would have a choice, but obviously meat and fish delivers them the most proteine.


And don't mess with GOD!
I belive in him! Perhaps he isn't the white bearded man and perhaps aliens have played with our DNA, but at the end there's an eternal source from which everything came respectively which/who created everything.

And I name it GOD.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5140/godanmo0.jpg

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6807/godtd9.jpg

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6799/god2si0.jpg

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

i would just like to thank Phtha for referring me to
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/index.html

it is so comprehensive. it has answered the questions i had about nutrition.

by invoking the name (and comic book musculature) of god, what king lear is saying is that human physiology and physical health are subjects tangible to science. as opposed to say, morals and belief systems. so to address those former topics,

meat and degenerative diseases

Re: Vegetarians or Vegans?
 

John Lear says nothing. I'm NOT JOHN Lear!!!