Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Good morning.
My friends wow you have been busy.
It does my heart good to see so much wisdom coming to this thread.

In answer to 14
Certainly in the case Of David Hawkins there is no ego and the self of him is the same Self as the Self of Ramana etc it also the same Self as the Self of you.
Hawkins says he is not actually in the body, "People talk to it but thats the way it is here"

We cant fully understand till we are in that state but David Hawkins comes closest to describing what it is like.
Awareness remains and that is eternal. That is what you are and I are as One. Awareness.
There are levels of God awareness (even that is not absolutely correct) The first being full enlightenment as described by Hawkins. He is not saying he is God God as I understand it.
More comment very welcome and much appreciated
Chris


I have reposted this from previous page.

There is so many thoughts on what enlightenment is that I thought it best to get it straight from the one who is in such a state.

There are levels of enlightenment and after fully transcending the ego this is an account of the final state
copied from the book "I Reality and Subjectivity" by Dr David Hawkins MD Ph.D

"Suddenly without warning, a shift in awareness occurred and the Presence totally prevailed, unmistakable and all encompassing. There were a few moments of intense apprehension as the self died, and then the absoluteness of the Presence inspired a flash of awe. This breakthrough was spectacular and more intense than anything before. It had no counterpart in ordinary experience. The profound shock was was cushioned by the love that is the Presence. Without the support and protection of that love, it seems that one would be annihilated.
There followed a moment of terror as the ego clung to its existence, fearing it would become nothingness. Instead, as it died, it was replaced by the Self as Everythingness, the All in which everything was known and obvious in its perfect expression of its own essence.
With non-locality came the awareness that one is all that ever was or can be. One is total and complete, beyond all identities, beyond gender, beyond even humanness itself. One need never again fear suffering and death.

What happened to the body beyond this point is immaterial. At certain level of spiritual awareness, ailments of the body heal or spontaneously disappear, but in the Absolute state such considerations are irrelevant.
The body will run its predicted course and then return from whence it came. Its a matter of no importance, Reality is unaffected. The body is an it rather than a me; just another object like furniture in a room. It may seem comical that people still address the body as though it were an individual you, but there is no way to explain this state of awareness to the unaware. It is best to just go about ones business and allow providence to handle the social adjustment. However as one reaches bliss, it is very difficult to conceal that state of intense ecstasy.
in this final apocalypse of the self, the dissolution of the sole remaining duality of existence versus non existence dissolves in Universal Divinity and no individual consciousness is left to chose. The last step, then, is taken by God."

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Such "awareness" can only be accomplished through the 'movement' of self-reflection, which is intrinsically dualizing; and, for that reason, the origin of conflict and violence. (This is symbolized by the "serpent" in Genesis 3 and the "dragon" in the Revelation of John.)

This is simply inescapable.

As observed by Krishnamurti, thought is intrinsically dualistic; and, for that reason, at least an exacerbation and intensification of conflict and violence.

This is inescapable.

Thus, thoughts about "enlightenment" are not in any way helpful to the actual reduction in the real world of conflict and violence.

Rather, the obsessive focusing upon "enlightenment" among the Eastern religious traditions is essentially no different than the incessant focusing upon personal "salvation" in the Western religious traditions. It only magnifies conflict and violence.

All of this is nothing more than thought; and, thus, merely the continuation of conflict and violence.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

As Nietzsche observed, "...if we could communicate with the mosquito, then we would learn that it floats through the air with the same self-importance, feeling within itself the flying center of the world. There is nothing in nature so despicable or insignificant that it cannot immediately be blown up like a bag by a slight breath of this power of knowledge..." (On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense, 1873)

The question of the ages is not "Who am I?"

The question of the ages is "What is Truth?"

Obsessing with the identity of the "I"--and such things as "enlightenment" and "salvation"--is the manifestation of the problem rather than the solution.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

This might be helpful, not saying its true but it is a way of looking at it.

Taking Dr Hawkins map of consciousness, which is presented as logarithmic scale, as a context.

God is infinity and therefore beyond calibration.
Archangels 50000
Enlightenment on earth up to 1000.
All the spiritual giants calibrate at this, Jesus the Buddah Krishna.
Enlightenment first level 600 (non-duality)
Sainthood very high 500s ( Saints are still very much in this world though not of it.)
Unconditional love 545
Megalomania 60.

The highest truth is that only God is.
So its likened to step down transformer,with highest spiritual energy God.
At lower levels we are unaware of consciousness at play we are so strongly identified with ego story we think we are it.
As our individual consciousness evolves we become aware that we are not just
a body, that may be an intellectual understanding to begin with.
We begin to disassociate from the play realizing that our perception has been mistaken and that there is no one out there doing anything to us, there is no external enemy, its the way we perceive events, our interpretation.
People are just being themselves.

Example, if people are angry and that anger heads in our direction, that is not a personal event, its just anger expressing itself and we happen to be handy for that to manifest. If we are not there, then, that anger would be expressed at some one or something else.

Eventually we can look at what is going on from an observer witness state and be unaffected by the play but there is compassion for those who still believe they are at the mercy of life. (Illusion)

If we are firmly entrenched in the belief in God, that we are not a body, how can death affect us? Except for compassion for others who are equal to us but not at the same level of understanding. Death is very real to them as is fear.

When enlightenment occurs it is not a personal event as there is no person left to claim it.
That is my understanding of the moment.
Comment very welcome.

Chris
Namaste

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

4q529
Good to see you here contributing.
Yes you are right about thought being dualistic which is why KM said " I dont mind"
The reason so few are enlightened is that they pursue something out with themselves, dualistic.
Dr Hawkins goes in to great depth on the reason why so few make it in the book.
"Discovery of the presence of God"
The truly Enlightened Sages are thoughtless awareness, its hard for them to describe as they are everything and aware of everything. How can you describe the color white when you are white and so is everything else? Yet that is not that. It is not describable in human terms it is beyond mind.

4q529 if you can accept that KM was enlightened as are others in the past why not check out Hawkins for yourself. People seem to have difficulty in accepting that that there are spiritual geniuses, enlightened sages, here Now.

Those who are Truth have to step down to our level of vibration and understanding to encourage us and point the way as Jesus did.
They do not experience the world the way we do at all.
He, Jesus, said "I am the way" The "I" is the way and it is found inside.
The question is not who am I? but "What am I?"

Again this is my current understanding and words can never be truth as talking about "I"
is not "I"

Chris
Namaste.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Sai Baba said "Its good to be born into a religion, bad to die in one"
I was baptized Catholic but as stated much earlier I escaped pre-school.

Krisha said (I cant find the exact quote posted earlier on the forum.)
"Even those who are mislead and head in the wrong direction are mine"
Anyone who truly loves God is in a good place regardless of which religion they are in or not in.
Back to Beren saying "Love love and then see what happens."

We don't know whats going to happen.

I am aware that there is potential for world war three, if that happens the next war will be fought with bows and arrows. I don't even like to go there.
Its a hypothetical.
Putting energy to that thought just adds to the potential for it to happen in my opinion.
Better to look for peacful and harmonious world.
The Nexus thread on this forum is filled with people actively doing this.

Anti war parades for example are expressing anger and frustration and are very violent affairs.
Mahatma Gandhi liberated India without firing a single shot, that is the power of high spiritual energy.
Mother Teresa said you might find me at a peace rally but not at an ant-war one.
Attacking violence is still attacking, its a similar energy.
Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

I cant debate the meaning of text from the bible as I have not studied in any depth.
The first two commandments say it all for me.

Im just letting right brain write.

With love to all who contribute here.
Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

In reality, Sir, you can speak only for yourself.

The use of the word "we" in such situations is a (probably) unconscious claim of Omniscience. You can say what you don't know; but you cannot claim to know that there is not one person on the face of the earth who knows what is going to happen. That would mean that you are claiming to be God Himself.

You have no way of knowing what I know about what is going to happen or that I even know it.

It may very well be a hypothetical for you, Sir.

But that does not mean that it is hypothetical for everyone.

That is what a Prophecy is.

On the other hand, if David Bowman in 2001--A Space Odyssey simply ignores the fact that the HAL 9000 computer has killed all the other members of the crew, he will be the next victim.

Jesus attacked the Pharisees and Sadducees for their violations of the Law and their contradictions of Revealed Truth.

There is simply no other word for it, if you read the Gospels carefully.

It is, of course, quite disgusting when someone attacks Jesus and then quotes Jesus to support such an attack.

Attacking lies through Truth is not "living by the sword".

"Living by the sword" is lying, censoring the Truth, and murdering those who contradict you.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

4q529
I stand corrected.
My understanding of the word hypothetical is that it has not happened yet, therefore not a factual reality. I not saying the receiving of prophesy is not a fact, it just hasn't happened as yet in everyone else's reality.
Some prophesies come into being some do not.
Anyway I don't pretend to be a scholar so I cant debate the bible or its meaning with you.
I really don't mind.
Regards
Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Don't mean to be offensive here, Sir.

But I don't care if he was or not.

It is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever.

You could not pay me to read something that he wrote.

The entire concept of "enlightenment" has no value for me whatsoever. All discussion over whether or how this or that person is or is not or can or cannot be or become "enlightened" is, to me, a fundamental distraction from doing anything real in diminishing violence and conflict.


Sir, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of how I experience the world.

None.

If you want to speak for yourself, feel free.

But you cannot speak for me.

What Jesus said is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

The Truth conveyed by merely the phonetic tones of those words (the meaning of which is Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man", the which is Revealed through the Revelation of the "resurrection") can be translated as: I am the Revelation of the "resurrection"; I am the Vision of the "Son of man"; I am the Law."

What was left unsaid is that both the Revelation of the "resurrection" and the Vision of the "Son of man" utterly consume the "I"--something that you have no Knowledge of.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Interesting thought: Expand on it some...

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Well, first I have to consider whether providing such an explanation would come under the category of "self-promotion".

What do you 'think'?

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Well, I see the mission of Jesus as the death of the egoic state, the rebirth of the True state and the ascension into the fullness of this. This thread is about our views on the ego and how to transcend it - I think this can be explained in the work of the Christ. How about you?

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

4q529
With respect.
There is a disclaimer that I put on most posts that I dont know and its just my point of view.
Enlightenment is just a word and words are not it.
I posted some where else Dr Hawkins statement that only God passes through the final door
There is no David Hawkins left.
Please tell me why I should believe what you say more than what passes through the form that was Dr Hawkins I am not disbelieving you or Dr Hawkins.

I am not educated, being dyslexic, I left school at the age of fifteen with out even standard grade. My knowledge therefore of the bible is limited to the religious instruction I got at school then which was non-denominational and is a distant memory.
I virtually taught myself to read and later found the joy of reading spiritual text from Sri Ramana Yogananda, Ramesh Balsekar, then recently Eckhart Tolle and currently Dr David Hawkins, so I take your word for it that you are very knowledgeable regarding the word of Jesus and the essence of it. Never the less the God of my understanding save me from suicidal alcoholism at the age of 25. I have been on the spiritual path in my own way ever since and have experienced the Love of God descending on me and leaving me in an incoherent state of bliss for two days, where all I could see and experience was pure love.
So that where I am personally coming from.

Chris
Namaste

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Namaste to you, for experience speaks truer and louder then beLIEfs.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

And to you HORIZON's
Loud drummer :mfr_lol:
This loud bass player says.
One of my best friends Uffe looked at me one day and said "Your just a child chris"
That made me very happy.

I agree with your take on the message of Christ on the cross.

Jesus taught to simple people, You have to be as a child etc

Chris
Namaste

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

The ego ...to transcend?
 

a.

Re: The ego ...to transcend?
 

Hi annemirri my new scorpio friend.
Yes so true, and dance and sing , which I do.
Chris
Namaste

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

If you take an honest look, you will see very clearly that those who achieve enlightenment, while they may at times have similar teachings, are very different Beings.

They do not approach Life exactly the same way, they express differently and they are unique. For me, it is simply not realistic to say they are the same. They are not the same. They are unique. Moreso even than most egos, which is why many are famous in certain circles. They are interesting, they have Light, they BE.

From my perspective, enlightenment is not about achieving sameness. It's about realizing we're One. That we are an individualization of the infinite and Being that individualization, Being MORE.

Oneness is reality. When the seperate self dies, we are no longer caught in comparisons, in the thinker. However, do we disapear? Can an enlightened sage himself create a new Universe and sustain eternally? No. They are not the fullness of the creator, they are a Free Willed individualization of infinity, as are you and me, they just see that we're one, whereas the human ego tries to convince us that we are separate. That's the difference between enlightened Being and ego non-being.

Each of us has a Divine Flame that is Unique in the mind of God. We have been given the gift of Free Will. This was not a mistake from God. This is not something God will take away. This is permanent. Free Will. Free Will to express our own unique talents below and Be all that we are Above ~ not the 'same' being, but a unique being with unique talents and viewpoints that is here to share them and help raise up creation here Now.

It is true, there are infinite Ways of enlightenment. Truth is spherical, non-linear. Infinity does not have a top end. It's infinite. Everything can grow infinitely. Up to infinity? No. There is no top end to infinity.

Putting enlightenment on a linear scale to me implies that consciousness is linear. I do not believe this is the case. Consciousness is spherical and it happens in the Now. There are no comparisons in infinity, only More.

Is there a 'scale' of highest that someone can be in a body. If there is such an upper limit, then note well that it is transcended every Now. Jesus said "You will do the works that I do, only greater works than these you will do."

Perhaps, the game of Life, is Life itSelf rather than achieving a static state. Perhaps, it's always about Being More, rather than disappearing, or achieving the 'most' that the 'rules' allow to achieve. Perhaps the 'rules' are that we are here to transcend, indefinitely, forever More.

Whatever One has done before, will be surpassed by those who choose to Be Now. Whatever comes Now, will be surpassed in a future Now. Otherwise, we're not in the river of Life, we're in the ego that seeks stability in non-change. Change is Life, Being MORE. Non-change is death. Non-life.

Perfection only happens Now. Being Now. The present moment, that's perfect. There's no end state to perfection. Only Life, only Being. Change is reality. Change of transcending our current sense of identity forever More.

I suggest seek God in Being More Now, rather than in disappearing into a static state of 'bliss'.

We are here Now to Be Masters, to finally transcend the slave consciousness.

To me, to say we are not co-creators is to not take responsibility for our world. Yet we are co-creators, we've created our own suffering by choosing not to be and letting wolves in sheeps clothing control our world, by being the blind following the blind, and now we will co-create abundance by connecting to our source, our own I AM Presence within and letting it Be the doer without.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Sir, I am specifically not telling you that you should believe what I say. And I mean this quite seriously.

Belief is thought and thought is dualistic.

For you to believe what I am saying would be worse than not believing what I am saying. In other words, I would prefer that you disbelieve me; and that you choose, rather, to see whether there is any merit in what I am saying. That's all.

Do you see that?

Because you would be holding on to a thought, which is dualistic.

Look at the difference between poetry and the lyrics of songs, as compared to philosophical or religious arguments.

Poetry and song lyrics merely describe what the writer is experiencing. That does not at all involve a question of belief. Either one accepts what the writer is saying or one does not accept it. (I would say that the poem If, by Rudyard Kipling, conveys more through poetry than the greatest psychiatrists of all time. It does not contain even so much as one logical or scientific argument about human consciousness. Yet, the meaning it conveys is quite clear.)

Philosophical and religious arguments, on the other hand, are a function of belief.

Now, why is it that the Revelation of John, being a Revelation, does not contain even so much as one logical argument?

Because it is not of thought or logic.

The meaning of the Revelation of John is conveyed in words which are much closer to poetry or song lyrics than to any philosophical or religious argument.

So, what I have said about those Revelations is also much closer to poetry than to any logical argument.

A poet or a song writer would not ask you whether you believe what he or she has written; but, rather, what is the meaning that those words convey to you. This is a completely different kind of discussion than a philosophical or logical argument. And this kind of thing can also be found in the Gospel of Thomas.

This is also why Jesus could explain his Teaching to fishermen who were not at all educated in the theology of the time. The Teaching strikes at a much deeper level, similar to poetry.

From a wider perspective, my own personal experience has demonstrated the dangers of following a religion of "love". That religion--Christianity--also included the burning of 'witches' and 'heretics', Crusades against Albigensians, Jews and Muslims and all manner of other kinds of evil against other peoples.

Love is something that is much too easily expropriated to the considerations of the "self".

My focus is, instead, upon the very narrow area of Doctrinal Truth.

That is the path that has been chosen for me and that is the Knowledge that I have.

My understanding is that if the issue of Doctrinal Truth is pursued that will result in a decrease in bloodshed and violence.

That is not everyone's path.

But that is my path.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

dear 4q259
Thank you for your answer,
I have stated elsewhere that there is merit in what you are expounding.
Wishing you all the best on your path.
Look forward to any further contributions that you may feel you want to make to this thread.

Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Remember why one once good being has fallen?

because of his big


EGO

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Dear 14 Chakras
The map of consciousness is exactly that, as pertaining to this world perception.
I honestly dont do justice to the teaching of DH as he writes about 350 pages per book and there are a few now.
You are just getting snap shots of my understanding or miss-understanding so dont take what I say as verbatim.
Because I am not in the state that Hawkins is in I cant explain it.

I am not in disagreement with anything you say, of course we are capable of more and there will be further adventures and advances in consciousness.
Each state is perfect and complete in itself moment by moment that doesn't mean that there is not more but that is by free will, spiritual intention.

It may be that the reason differences in presentation and personality is due to the culture, era and audience.
Teachers say that the "The Teacher and the Taught are the same" one consciousness.
That there is only one consciousness, Consciousness is not what we are, we are beyond even that. We are awareness being aware of consciousness.

Either Dr David Hawkins is enlightened or he is not. I believe beyond doubt he is.
I went to America to hear him talk at Longbeach California. The lecture "Living the prayer" It was worth it.

The choice is simple. I listen to what flows through his form and that teaching is relevant to me or I chase after this and that for a few more life times.

I am not a follower of any person. I am a follower of Truth as it presents itself to me at a level I am capable of understanding at this moment, at moment it is coming through the form of DH, as said earlier there is no David Hawkins left.
If what comes through his form from non-locality says only God walks through the final door who am i to disagree.

I cant answer deep questions on his behalf I wouldnt even try.
I have the essence of the teaching but expressing it accurately I find difficult.

I am not taking away from your understanding of truth or anyone elses my friend.
I have just found for myself a form of teaching that resonates very strongly with what is inside me.
Typing for me is a one finger job and constant sell check so thats it for now.

With great respect for you and your knowledge !4 Chakras
Good night
Chris
Namaste

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Oh just read Beren and Redezra

I have to agree with both.

Jesus was offered more by the devil. He refused out of humility
The Buddha was beset by demons.

Hawkins was offered power, He was told now that you are beyond personal karma you can do what you want. He said without words "I wouldn't want the responsibility and professed his devotion to God" Karma operates on a non personal basis too, nothing is beyond it

The spiritual ego is very clever, it things it is going to be an enlightened ego, not so.
Only one death to face the death of the nonexistent ego which we are loath to let go.

The lower astral realm hates God hates spiritual progress and is a master at seducing those making spiritual progress. They spin yarns that you can be greater than God, you can claim your power for the good of the human race.
Being greater than your Creator is just not possible to my mind.
They of the lower astral are capable of appearing in any form or guise that may be appealing to you, they give part of the truth to dispel any fear you might have then sell you on power without love, heaven help you if you buy into it.
If you are approached by any out of body entity ask them three times "Are you of Christ consciousness?" They cannot lie bout that
I am just paraphrasing the teaching of DH on the subject, he also says everything, regarding teaching, you need to know is in embodiment or has been. Christ, Budda etc
He goes to great lengths explain the temptations to the unwary.

Anyway thats it.

Namaste Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

To BE or not to be.

The choice is always ours ;)

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Redezra
you have done it again, saying what I meant to say so eloquently, but couldn't find the words.
Thank you.

The play goes on. time being anyway.
Think Sathya said " Without birth and death I would unemployed"

Without the belief in the ego being real this current play would end.

Must confess I am getting a little weary, waiting on God.
I have had and am having a full and productive life, which I appreciate greatly, yet now I know the little of the little I know, I would be as happy to go home.

Going to bed.
I will probably be born again from the womb of sleep tomorrow.

Surrender, surrender and when I am tired of surrender--- surrender some more to the will of God.
Good night.
Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Somewhere
like a scene from a memory
there`s a picture of a thousand words...

Let us love ,love and let go our mental wish to describe every bits and pieces of everything...

Then we`ll see door opening into imagination -LIVE-

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

I suggest this is the great illusion that must be slayed in order to Be.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

As long as "I" am waiting for "God", "I" will be in a perpetual state of seperation, ego and non-being.

I Am not the ego. This is not easy to understand I guess, yet it is Truth. I AM the I AM. That is who I Am.

Yet, if I wish to say: I'm just this little guy, this seperate 'waiting' for 'God' to patch things up, then I shall wait.

I must affirm my true identity, or I remain in perpetual state of my own illusions creating suffering and separation.

"Take responsibility for your state of consciousness Now. This is what the entire teaching really is about." ~ Eckhart Tolle

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

By the way, really appreciate the contributions on this thread and elsewhere and I'm a big fan of the kind of thought that is being put into this thread. Do not mean to sound dualistic, as I feel there are a lot of fabulous thought and being going on here.

I just like to always see if we can look at things from another angle, in addition to the angels we are already seeing... I believe as I have said earlier, there is always More, meaning, whatever we've created as our belief system and mental box can always be expanded, and this is one of the purposes of life. I believe that there truly is no limit to progress that can be made while we are in embodiment here, no matter what level we achieve, we can always climb higher.

Man know thySelf ~ continually expand our sense of identity ~

~ Espavo ~

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Dear 14, first name terms :mfr_lol:
Waiting for God is a TV series in UK.
I was tongue in cheek when I said it.:mfr_lol:
and I was tired of doing my best to see others point of view.

Every religion teaches surrender to God and while that may seem dualistic,
Its like the expression "you cant get there from here."
Well thats untrue, you have to start from where you are.
In actual fact your are surrendering to a higher aspect of your self which sees your struggles and knows what you are. You are NOT asking something separate from you for help. There is no duality in the prayer.
Truth is that we are not separate from God never have been, but perception has created a world of opposite, judgments, so we have to work on that while surrendering our efforts to God, karma also plays a part but thats another story.

You can use nondualistic thoughts till you are blue in the face and nothing will happen.
The traditional route is clear. Surrender to God ask him to remove ignorance.
Only the power of God can reveal truth to you.
Enlightenment is by the grace of God you can remove obstacles but till God acts ignorance remains.

For thirty years I have been reading, books on Indian enlightened souls, then recently Eckhart Tolle and DH, I have been in the presence of 5 enlightened souls.
Been to three seminers put on by Eckhart one a retreat, happened to share time with Eckhart over breakfast with Kim his partner. So I have studied the subject deeply and put forth the effort. Yet I was lead by synchronicity to all of this. I cant claim I did anything.
Kundalin had been moving within me for ten years I feel the energy. When K is awakened to the degree it is, then this is the last life time, I am being pulled to my future by the Grace of God.
That is fact, many are on their last life time just now.

The story is always the same coming from enlightened souls, out of the blue enlightenment occurred without warning.
Not one of them claimed oneness before enlightenment, after the event oneness is experienced as a totally different state, which cant even be spoken of. Ramana couldn't speak for years after the event. Hawkins was out of it for year so was Tolle.
God shock is another term for it. Self realization is not done by self, it is when SELF which is inherent within, is reveled after all obstacles are removed with the Help of God.

So while that is my understanding. its essence, is in harmony with that which has been written for thousands of years.
Gloria in Excelsis Deo
Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

We are all One.

We are not all the same.

We are unique points of consciousness within all that IS.

We have co-created our experience of lack and suffering. We will co-create our experience of abundance when we awaken to who we truly are, Suns and Daughters of God.

Affirm we are the separate sinner, and we shall remain as the churches have falsely taught for millenia ~ powerless creators of our own suffering.

Awaken to the reality that ALREADY here and NOW I AM that I AM within. That is my true identity. Oneness is reality. The Divine is me and I AM the Divine here and Now, and I work through the illusions of separation that are blocking the Way of the Pure Light of God Being manifest through me Now.

Dawkins consciousness is not the fullness of the creator. Nor is Tolle's, nor is Jesus, nor is Saint Germain, nor is _____ enlightened Being of your choice here. They are unique Free Willed filters of the Divine Light rather than the fullness of All that IS. In the Schoolroom of infinity we continue to grow our filter, purify, expand and Be More.

God is in All, All is in God. Free Willed individualization's of infinity co-creating in the eternal Now.

I rest in Peace ;)

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Dear 14.
The big problem is that as Eckhart said there are pradoxes in spiritual teaching because the mystic does not live in the duality state, but in a timeless, nonlocality that is beyond our comprehension.
The teaching is clear the Self of the sage is the same as the Self of the student.

Before Eckhart became enlightened he had never heard of the concept of Now and was certainly not living his life that way.
Hawkins had become an athiest.
Ramana was a young teenager.
They probably all were in service to God in previous lifetimes.

You take ten steps towards God and he takes a hundred towards you.

You have whatever belief system you chose thats fine if you dont want to be enlightened.

If enlightenment is your serious goal, then you need to study that which is written by those who are in that state.

Eckhart teaches surrender to what is and that it is the Totality which brought this present moment into being. Because of the audience he is mainly speaking to, he dosent speak of God too much.
He visited India and guess where he spent time, on the late Rmana's Ashram and with Ramesh Balsekar, the late Advaita teacher, his main message is that "The main stumbling block is that you think you are the doer of deeds"
The Bahgavad Gita if studied would also remove the illusion that you are the doer. You cant cause anything to happen.
Jesus said " Of myself I do nothing, it is the father within"
If you read "Discovering the Presence of God/Devotional Nonduality" then it is possible that your outlook on spirituality would alter radically.
You are getting Dr David Hawkins teaching and others very second hand from me. Why not check him out?
Getting it straight from One in that state makes more sense that debating it with me.
Time is short.
Thats coming from Love as I know you come from Love
Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Was Yogananda an atheist before he began his mission?

Is the path to enlightenment the path of remaining unconscious until God decides to fix one?

I choose to get my information from my Source. My Being.

You may say: But 14, you have not written these books, you don't know, these guys know because they're one with God, and you're not. And I say: That is truly an illusion for God is in me Now as God is in you Now. I see so clearly, I see so with my Heart.

As far as I understand it, Eckhart Tolle does not teach the path to enlightenment of remaining totally unconscious to the Now as he did. As far as I understand it, he teaches that waiting is never going to get anyone into the Now. Only the present moment is real, is enlightened. Enlightenment does not happen then, it happens Now. We can say: well I'm not there yet, I don't trust my Heart Now, I will read and say they know, I don't know. That's ok, but from my perspective enlightened teachings are about Being Now, not then, NOW.

It is true that some teachers receive a gift of Light to awaken them from an unawakened state, however, this is not how it has to be, nor is it how it works for most. For most, it is about Being. It is about doing the work, surrendering the ego, and one day, yes one day rebirth occurs. But it is not a fluke, it is not accident, it is reality that manifest when the illusions have been surrendered.

OF COURSE:

I am not the doer.

Is this an argument? Can we get past this point. The thinker is not the doer.

The BE'er is the doer.

Who BE'S? I BE. I AM. That's I.

I AM not the thinker. I AM.

You say, no, you are not, only special people are. I say: that is an illusion.

I AM.

I BE.

I let the I AM within BE. That's who I AM.

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

With only one self who is there to be special?

God is one without a second.

The tree has many branches with buds, some in flower and some in various degrees of moving towards flowering. All one tree.
Of course it will be Now when it happens it cant be otherwise.
It will be Now when Eckhart gives his next talk.
It all unfolds in the eternal moment.

The big problem is were are discussing in a linear fashion that which is beyond our personal experience. From that perspective we are talking about it, talking about is not it.

If David Hawkins says "Only God walks through the final door" and that "Enlightenment is not a personal event" then who am I to disagree.

Anyway while im enjoying our discussion, im not a teacher Im not enlightened.
I dont know but I know some one who does.

So as long as your happy, im happy.
With love
Chris

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

Id rather be happy than right :original:

Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?
 

I must admit.. I was completely bowled over on reading Eckhart's 'The power of now' recently.

This really resonates with me. The simplicity of 'his' ideas about being present(say in contrast to something like a thread about alien races) is astounding.

When I peeked into the chatroom today, I wished more people had read books like that one! Maybe they had, anyway!

It's a good day to contemplate the ego and the mind.

In a very real way, none of the material at camelot or avalon is of any consequence if one is living totally in the now.

Not that I don't value it, or Bill, or Kerry, or all the posters here, because I do - but we need to be in control of the mind, and use it properly. This forum is a playground where the mind quickly gets a hold of the YOU that IS if you are not careful.

Peace and BE

K...

I'm off to BEd :original: